Changes within UPC (recent)

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by n david

Granted, it's semantics, but it should be accurately pointed out. By placing quotation marks around the term you're showing it as a quote, which it is not.

When Paul said LAY BY HIM IN STORE he was saying that in regards to the OFFERING FOR THE POOR SAINTS!

It was not at ALL written for Pastors sakes.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by n david

Second, to claim that just because the UPC believes in tithes makes them all about the money is wrong. Perhaps the claim would be believable if the UPC was the only organization, or one of a very few organizations which believed in tithes. But the truth is the majority of the main denominations believe in tithes.


I do agree that the position on tithes should change, however.

I challenge your assertion that most mainline denominations believe in tithing, especially in the sense that the UPC teaches it.

I know Church of Christ, Bible Churches, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Methodists do not teach tithes. Some Baptists do (SBC) and many do not.

I'm unsure of Anglicans and Disciples of Christ, but doubtful on both of those groups.
And while the doctrine has its origins in Catholicism, they don't even enforce it or teach on it.

The only groups that teach tithing are Pentecostal/charismatic, Mormon, and some Baptists.


So what about the "majority of mainline denominations" teaching tithing?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I challenge your assertion that most mainline denominations believe in tithing, especially in the sense that the UPC teaches it.

I know Church of Christ, Bible Churches, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Methodists do not teach tithes. Some Baptists do (SBC) and many do not.

I'm unsure of Anglicans and Disciples of Christ, but doubtful on both of those groups.
And while the doctrine has its origins in Catholicism, they don't even enforce it or teach on it.

The only groups that teach tithing are Pentecostal/charismatic, Mormon, and some Baptists.


So what about the "majority of mainline denominations" teaching tithing?

I would say all the law keeping groups do tithing.

[Abiding Now]

I freely tithe and I'm totally thrilled to get to give, not only in tithe, but in offerings. One of the best things that I have ever done was to make a financial commitment to God and His church and keep it. So many that never make a commitment often times "just don't have enough money to tithe" and God and His church are left without support while the fishing boat, the car payment and everything else comes FIRST.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

First, it doesn't actually call them "God Robbers." What it says is "Do not rob God."

Second, to claim that just because the UPC believes in tithes makes them all about the money is wrong. Perhaps the claim would be believable if the UPC was the only organization, or one of a very few organizations which believed in tithes. But the truth is the majority of the main denominations believe in tithes.

Also, I know many in the UPC who are Pastors, Evangelists and District/HQ officials. They are definitely not all about the money.

I do agree that the position on tithes should change, however.

All you say is fair and accurate.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

I freely tithe and I'm totally thrilled to get to give, not only in tithe, but in offerings. One of the best things that I have ever done was to make a financial commitment to God and His church and keep it. So many that never make a commitment often times "just don't have enough money to tithe" and God and His church are left without support while the fishing boat, the car payment and everything else comes FIRST.

If they are not giving because they bought a fishing boat on credit then something is out of balance. A car is a necessity but if they refused to settle for a simpler car and can't give because they have a huge car payment, then something is wrong. But if they drive a paid for 12 year old car, and make only 1000 a month, nobody should question their giving.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Originalist

If they are not giving because they bought a fishing boat on credit then something is out of balance. A car is a necessity but if they refused to settle for a simpler car and can't give because they have a huge car payment, then something is wrong. But if they drive a paid for 12 year old car, and make only 1000 a month, nobody should question their giving.

Who decides who's allowed to have what? I have a 2014 Mustang convertible. I was going to buy an old one (was looking for 89-93 models) but despite being affordable most were ragged out. And the better ones would run 6-8k. And there's no guarantee it would run for long.
I sometimes have to drive 60 miles to 100 miles a day for work, so I have to have a dependable vehicle. Low mileage always helps. So I bought a new Mustang.

Earlier in 2014 I traded in my wife's vehicle because it was wearing out. We went to a Mazda dealer, they still had 2 2013 Mazda 3's. I bought her a new 2013 and got a big discount because it was last years model.

Now if I took her car to church no one would think anything of it. A small white 4 door car.
If I took my car, top down and all, to church some folks would probably be talking about how that's why I don't believe in tithes.

The truth? I bought my mustang pre-owned (had 14k miles on it). Both car cost nearly the same, and actually the payment on my car is cheaper ($331/mo).

When I was buying used clunkers at Tote the Note places I was paying $75/WK and that was 10 years ago.

You can't judge people based on what they have but sadly that's what some folks do.

[returnman]

Wow! I ask a general question about how things where in the Org and the whole thread went into a debate on tithing. Any other input???

[JoseC]

Depends in te church. Upc is supposed to be big church small organization, meaning the entity if the org has little power or authority over the local church.

At the UPC church I attend everything is still being preached. Pastor consistently says his ruling book is the Bible and not some organization.

A church shouldn't be brushed over because they're associated with a certain organization(to a point).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by returnman

wow! I ask a general question about how things where in the org and the whole thread went into a debate on tithing.

hahahaha!