Oneness vs Trinity (Can someone give a non-bias)

[NewbieMisfits]

Ok....

I have become frustrated not being able to find non-bias comparison of Oneness & Trinity..... Every page is an extreme from one to the other...

Just need the facts, not one's opinion (but feel free to give it)...

This church we are visiting is "Oneness" & I'm just trying to grasp what this is in comparison to the Trinity....

Just want to hear what some of you have to say... and I have no idea what sub-forum to post this to. Yes, I did try searching AFF as well...

THANKS!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

Ok....

I have become frustrated not being able to find non-bias comparison of Oneness & Trinity..... Every page is an extreme from one to the other...

Just need the facts, not one's opinion (but feel free to give it)...

This church we are visiting is "Oneness" & I'm just trying to grasp what this is in comparison to the Trinity....

Just want to hear what some of you have to say... and I have no idea what sub-forum to post this to. Yes, I did try searching AFF as well...

THANKS!

Trinity: God is one being that us tri-personal. Father, Son and Spirit Eternally existed as distinct persons who all are the One God/being. The Son became human

Oneness: God is One being that is singularly personal (or Unipersonal) who became human and existing distinctly in three modes or manifestations.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/onetrindisagree.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/on...asondiffer.htm

[Michael The Disciple]

Trinity:

God is three co equal, co eternal Persons each one God in his own right. This is said to be one being.

The second of the co eternal, co equal persons became a man without ceasing to be God.

Oneness:

There is only one God, that is the Father. He caused his word to become flesh while he was still God in his omnipesence.

He exists simultaneously at present as both God and man. Father and Son.

[Precis]

I write in caps that i can see what i write.
Ths will take a while.
First there i one god that we true oneness apostolic believe in.
Not two nor three.
We belive in the one god of the israelites call also bebrews, and jews.
They state their god is a spirit as we do also.
The man that is called the son of god.
Is not god nor at any time stated he was god.
As scripture states what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit.
The man that the apostles, his disciples, family and even the priest called him by his birth name of yahushua.
This man that all the apostles taught every person to belive in was call the son of god.
This man was also called the christ or messiah or the anointed one.
This man was toltal flesh, born of a woman under the law.
That he might redeem those under the law.
He was also the mediator of the new covenant which is the spiritual covenant, not a carnal covenant as was the law.
This new covenant was of the spiritual as was the ten commandments.
Now if you have read the k. J. V. Of the bible you would all ready know that the son came in his father's name, correct?
You would all ready know that he stated his father was the holy spirit and that every person must worship his father in the spirit and truth.
You would as well know that god which the son called his father is as the air, everywhere at the same time.
You would know that when the son stated " when you see me you have seen the father" he is talking about all the works he did.
The works that he stated he did not do but the spirit, as he stated in john it is the father that does the woeks.
Just as the son stated he was not good only god is good.
Know the holy spirit is the selfsame spirit that is called the holy ghost then you should understand that the father is that one and selfsame spirit.
Not another that is give the title of holy spirit.
Knowing there is only one holy spirit that the son called his father.
You can read all this in the four gospels.
Matt., mark, luke,and john.
Which by the way is not the n. T. At all.
Why?
Because the man called the christ was born, lived died, and was buried, raised and assended all under the law.
Know you are a bible reader you should know that scripture states that no flesh nor blood can go into heaven.
This would mean that the flesh, carnal man born of the woman could not have assended into heave.
Knowing you read then the spirit that....was in, move on, worked through that earthen body of flesh was the spirit that went back to god that gave it.
I know you have read that scripture that makes that statement.
Let us back up for a min. And reason out a few things.
God has always been a spirit, correct?
God has always worked through a person, correct?
Well let me put it like this.
God manifested his works through men, well not all the time.
He manifested himself or in other words manifested his works through a burning bush, did he not?
He manifested his work through an ass, did he not?
Now you can see that god is just as he and the man called the christ states that he is a holy spirit.
Let me go a little farther.
To get you to understand about the man called the chris and about the holy spirit called the father.
In num. God told moses that he (god) would take ofthe spirit that was on moses.
Please lokk and read close.
God did not take the spirit that was on moses.
No he took of, yes the word of is used .
Please note that god himself wason mose.
I put it another way god was in, on, working his works through, or to say manifesting himself by all the works done by moses.
Then god leave a portion of his spirit in moses and puts a portion of that selfsame spirit in the seventy elders.
Please note that did not put himself anywhere.
He is alread everywhere.
He is like the air around us , it is in us through us and above us.
That is what the father is a spirit.
Not just a spirit but the spirit.
God is not like the created spirits of angels nor is he like the created spirit in man.
He is and there is none beside him nor behind him nor in front of him nor above him.
I know you have read the scripture that states...man's spirit is enmity to god.
If you have not read it read in rom.
Please note that the spirit of man is his mind, soul.
You should understand by now that the son was not a god nor the god.
That the father was god and the god.
That god only worked through the son.
Just as he did through moses the seventy elders the prophets and the apostle and even some of the oneness apostolic.
God works through or to say uses a person to show forth his works.
When moses looked at the burning bush, he said he saw god or the works of god.
When eliyah called fire down on the captains was it eliyah or did god do the works?
Now you should have enough understanding to understand.
That the holy ghost is the selfsame spirit that is called god.
The selfsame spirit the son called his and our father.
Not another spirit.
Not another god.
That the christ was a man.
Yes, a man born of a woman, just as we are.
A man intotal obedience to the commandments of god that god would work though him.
We are required to have the very selfsame spirit in us, that was in the man called the christ.
Not another spirit that some person called the holy ghost.
No but the selfsame spirit.
Just as god had given to the seventy elders the selfsame spirit that he gave to moses.
Go read it.
We are not the incarnated god.
Nor were the seventy elders nor was moses nor any other person which had the spirit working in, on through or upon them an incarnated god.
Nor was the christ the incarnated god.
There is not one scripture that even implies it.
There is one spirit that we call the father and we put the title of holy ghost on, well i don't but most do.
The son whose name is yahushua.
Not jesus, iesus nor iesous.
The name jeus was not known until about the 1550s ad nor was it in any trnsliteration until about 1603 ad.
There is only one son and one god.
The son is just that a son.
That was adopted through and by the spirit.
Just as each true son of god.
We must take on his name of yahushua and have him working in through us or we are not of his family.
I know that i. Baxter, l. Stoneking, and d. K. Bernard state that the son they call jesus is the second person of the god head.
They are in error.
In teaching the name jesus as the name of god and in teach that there is a second person in the godhead.
In doing this they too are trinity.
No person can state there is three and then say there is only one.
It doe not matter if they say thre in one or three as one or whatever.
They are all stating the same thing.
Just in a little different way.
Just ask what name did all the jews call the man they called the christ when the n. T. Was not wrote as of that time and the name jesus had not been invented at the time of the life of the christ.
There was 33 years that the man called the christ had to be call by some other name than jesus.
It is not until the 1600 ad does any person write that name.
So what was his name?
What did his hebrew mom and dad and brothers and sisters and friends call him while he grew up.
The angel could not have called his name an english name.
Christ talk to paul in the hebrew not english.
Then what would be the name he would have spoken to paul?
The only name that could have been spoken was yahushua.
If this does not show you that ther is one god not three and that the son was not the incarnated go.
Then e-mail me and i will give a lot more scrpiture.
That should prove that which i teach as truth.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Precis

I write in caps that i can see what i write.
Ths will take a while.
First there i one god that we true oneness apostolic believe in.
Not two nor three.
We belive in the one god of the israelites call also bebrews, and jews.
They state their god is a spirit as we do also.
The man that is called the son of god.
Is not god nor at any time stated he was god.
As scripture states what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit.
The man that the apostles, his disciples, family and even the priest called him by his birth name of yahushua.
This man that all the apostles taught every person to belive in was call the son of god.
This man was also called the christ or messiah or the anointed one.
This man was toltal flesh, born of a woman under the law.
That he might redeem those under the law.
He was also the mediator of the new covenant which is the spiritual covenant, not a carnal covenant as was the law.
This new covenant was of the spiritual as was the ten commandments.
Now if you have read the k. J. V. Of the bible you would all ready know that the son came in his father's name, correct?
You would all ready know that he stated his father was the holy spirit and that every person must worship his father in the spirit and truth.
You would as well know that god which the son called his father is as the air, everywhere at the same time.
You would know that when the son stated " when you see me you have seen the father" he is talking about all the works he did.
The works that he stated he did not do but the spirit, as he stated in john it is the father that does the woeks.
Just as the son stated he was not good only god is good.
Know the holy spirit is the selfsame spirit that is called the holy ghost then you should understand that the father is that one and selfsame spirit.
Not another that is give the title of holy spirit.
Knowing there is only one holy spirit that the son called his father.
You can read all this in the four gospels.
Matt., mark, luke,and john.
Which by the way is not the n. T. At all.
Why?
Because the man called the christ was born, lived died, and was buried, raised and assended all under the law.
Know you are a bible reader you should know that scripture states that no flesh nor blood can go into heaven.
This would mean that the flesh, carnal man born of the woman could not have assended into heave.
Knowing you read then the spirit that....was in, move on, worked through that earthen body of flesh was the spirit that went back to god that gave it.
I know you have read that scripture that makes that statement.
Let us back up for a min. And reason out a few things.
God has always been a spirit, correct?
God has always worked through a person, correct?
Well let me put it like this.
God manifested his works through men, well not all the time.
He manifested himself or in other words manifested his works through a burning bush, did he not?
He manifested his work through an ass, did he not?
Now you can see that god is just as he and the man called the christ states that he is a holy spirit.
Let me go a little farther.
To get you to understand about the man called the chris and about the holy spirit called the father.
In num. God told moses that he (god) would take ofthe spirit that was on moses.
Please lokk and read close.
God did not take the spirit that was on moses.
No he took of, yes the word of is used .
Please note that god himself wason mose.
I put it another way god was in, on, working his works through, or to say manifesting himself by all the works done by moses.
Then god leave a portion of his spirit in moses and puts a portion of that selfsame spirit in the seventy elders.
Please note that did not put himself anywhere.
He is alread everywhere.
He is like the air around us , it is in us through us and above us.
That is what the father is a spirit.
Not just a spirit but the spirit.
God is not like the created spirits of angels nor is he like the created spirit in man.
He is and there is none beside him nor behind him nor in front of him nor above him.
I know you have read the scripture that states...man's spirit is enmity to god.
If you have not read it read in rom.
Please note that the spirit of man is his mind, soul.
You should understand by now that the son was not a god nor the god.
That the father was god and the god.
That god only worked through the son.
Just as he did through moses the seventy elders the prophets and the apostle and even some of the oneness apostolic.
God works through or to say uses a person to show forth his works.
When moses looked at the burning bush, he said he saw god or the works of god.
When eliyah called fire down on the captains was it eliyah or did god do the works?
Now you should have enough understanding to understand.
That the holy ghost is the selfsame spirit that is called god.
The selfsame spirit the son called his and our father.
Not another spirit.
Not another god.
That the christ was a man.
Yes, a man born of a woman, just as we are.
A man intotal obedience to the commandments of god that god would work though him.
We are required to have the very selfsame spirit in us, that was in the man called the christ.
Not another spirit that some person called the holy ghost.
No but the selfsame spirit.
Just as god had given to the seventy elders the selfsame spirit that he gave to moses.
Go read it.
We are not the incarnated god.
Nor were the seventy elders nor was moses nor any other person which had the spirit working in, on through or upon them an incarnated god.
Nor was the christ the incarnated god.
There is not one scripture that even implies it.
There is one spirit that we call the father and we put the title of holy ghost on, well i don't but most do.
The son whose name is yahushua.
Not jesus, iesus nor iesous.
The name jeus was not known until about the 1550s ad nor was it in any trnsliteration until about 1603 ad.
There is only one son and one god.
The son is just that a son.
That was adopted through and by the spirit.
Just as each true son of god.
We must take on his name of yahushua and have him working in through us or we are not of his family.
I know that i. Baxter, l. Stoneking, and d. K. Bernard state that the son they call jesus is the second person of the god head.
They are in error.
In teaching the name jesus as the name of god and in teach that there is a second person in the godhead.
In doing this they too are trinity.
No person can state there is three and then say there is only one.
It doe not matter if they say thre in one or three as one or whatever.
They are all stating the same thing.
Just in a little different way.
Just ask what name did all the jews call the man they called the christ when the n. T. Was not wrote as of that time and the name jesus had not been invented at the time of the life of the christ.
There was 33 years that the man called the christ had to be call by some other name than jesus.
It is not until the 1600 ad does any person write that name.
So what was his name?
What did his hebrew mom and dad and brothers and sisters and friends call him while he grew up.
The angel could not have called his name an english name.
Christ talk to paul in the hebrew not english.
Then what would be the name he would have spoken to paul?
The only name that could have been spoken was yahushua.
If this does not show you that ther is one god not three and that the son was not the incarnated go.
Then e-mail me and i will give a lot more scrpiture.
That should prove that which i teach as truth.

Im calling this "The Precis Code"....not sure what it means yet

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Im calling this "The Precis Code"....not sure what it means yet

It is denying Yeshua is El.

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Precis

I write in caps that i can see what i write.
Ths will take a while.
First there i one god that we true oneness apostolic believe in.
Not two nor three.
We belive in the one god of the israelites call also bebrews, and jews.
They state their god is a spirit as we do also.
The man that is called the son of god.
Is not god nor at any time stated he was god.
As scripture states what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit.
The man that the apostles, his disciples, family and even the priest called him by his birth name of yahushua.
This man that all the apostles taught every person to belive in was call the son of god.
This man was also called the christ or messiah or the anointed one.
This man was toltal flesh, born of a woman under the law.
That he might redeem those under the law.
He was also the mediator of the new covenant which is the spiritual covenant, not a carnal covenant as was the law.
This new covenant was of the spiritual as was the ten commandments.
Now if you have read the k. J. V. Of the bible you would all ready know that the son came in his father's name, correct?
You would all ready know that he stated his father was the holy spirit and that every person must worship his father in the spirit and truth.
You would as well know that god which the son called his father is as the air, everywhere at the same time.
You would know that when the son stated " when you see me you have seen the father" he is talking about all the works he did.
The works that he stated he did not do but the spirit, as he stated in john it is the father that does the woeks.
Just as the son stated he was not good only god is good.
Know the holy spirit is the selfsame spirit that is called the holy ghost then you should understand that the father is that one and selfsame spirit.
Not another that is give the title of holy spirit.
Knowing there is only one holy spirit that the son called his father.
You can read all this in the four gospels.
Matt., mark, luke,and john.
Which by the way is not the n. T. At all.
Why?
Because the man called the christ was born, lived died, and was buried, raised and assended all under the law.
Know you are a bible reader you should know that scripture states that no flesh nor blood can go into heaven.
This would mean that the flesh, carnal man born of the woman could not have assended into heave.
Knowing you read then the spirit that....was in, move on, worked through that earthen body of flesh was the spirit that went back to god that gave it.
I know you have read that scripture that makes that statement.
Let us back up for a min. And reason out a few things.
God has always been a spirit, correct?
God has always worked through a person, correct?
Well let me put it like this.
God manifested his works through men, well not all the time.
He manifested himself or in other words manifested his works through a burning bush, did he not?
He manifested his work through an ass, did he not?
Now you can see that god is just as he and the man called the christ states that he is a holy spirit.
Let me go a little farther.
To get you to understand about the man called the chris and about the holy spirit called the father.
In num. God told moses that he (god) would take ofthe spirit that was on moses.
Please lokk and read close.
God did not take the spirit that was on moses.
No he took of, yes the word of is used .
Please note that god himself wason mose.
I put it another way god was in, on, working his works through, or to say manifesting himself by all the works done by moses.
Then god leave a portion of his spirit in moses and puts a portion of that selfsame spirit in the seventy elders.
Please note that did not put himself anywhere.
He is alread everywhere.
He is like the air around us , it is in us through us and above us.
That is what the father is a spirit.
Not just a spirit but the spirit.
God is not like the created spirits of angels nor is he like the created spirit in man.
He is and there is none beside him nor behind him nor in front of him nor above him.
I know you have read the scripture that states...man's spirit is enmity to god.
If you have not read it read in rom.
Please note that the spirit of man is his mind, soul.
You should understand by now that the son was not a god nor the god.
That the father was god and the god.
That god only worked through the son.
Just as he did through moses the seventy elders the prophets and the apostle and even some of the oneness apostolic.
God works through or to say uses a person to show forth his works.
When moses looked at the burning bush, he said he saw god or the works of god.
When eliyah called fire down on the captains was it eliyah or did god do the works?
Now you should have enough understanding to understand.
That the holy ghost is the selfsame spirit that is called god.
The selfsame spirit the son called his and our father.
Not another spirit.
Not another god.
That the christ was a man.
Yes, a man born of a woman, just as we are.
A man intotal obedience to the commandments of god that god would work though him.
We are required to have the very selfsame spirit in us, that was in the man called the christ.
Not another spirit that some person called the holy ghost.
No but the selfsame spirit.
Just as god had given to the seventy elders the selfsame spirit that he gave to moses.
Go read it.
We are not the incarnated god.
Nor were the seventy elders nor was moses nor any other person which had the spirit working in, on through or upon them an incarnated god.
Nor was the christ the incarnated god.
There is not one scripture that even implies it.
There is one spirit that we call the father and we put the title of holy ghost on, well i don't but most do.
The son whose name is yahushua.
Not jesus, iesus nor iesous.
The name jeus was not known until about the 1550s ad nor was it in any trnsliteration until about 1603 ad.
There is only one son and one god.
The son is just that a son.
That was adopted through and by the spirit.
Just as each true son of god.
We must take on his name of yahushua and have him working in through us or we are not of his family.
I know that i. Baxter, l. Stoneking, and d. K. Bernard state that the son they call jesus is the second person of the god head.
They are in error.
In teaching the name jesus as the name of god and in teach that there is a second person in the godhead.
In doing this they too are trinity.
No person can state there is three and then say there is only one.
It doe not matter if they say thre in one or three as one or whatever.
They are all stating the same thing.
Just in a little different way.
Just ask what name did all the jews call the man they called the christ when the n. T. Was not wrote as of that time and the name jesus had not been invented at the time of the life of the christ.
There was 33 years that the man called the christ had to be call by some other name than jesus.
It is not until the 1600 ad does any person write that name.
So what was his name?
What did his hebrew mom and dad and brothers and sisters and friends call him while he grew up.
The angel could not have called his name an english name.
Christ talk to paul in the hebrew not english.
Then what would be the name he would have spoken to paul?
The only name that could have been spoken was yahushua.
If this does not show you that ther is one god not three and that the son was not the incarnated go.
Then e-mail me and i will give a lot more scrpiture.
That should prove that which i teach as truth.

!WoW!
THAT'S A WRITE UP!!!!!
You have no idea how much complete sense that just brought me!
Would be awesome to ask you a few other questions.

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It is denying Yeshua is El.

?

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Trinity: God is one being that us tri-personal. Father, Son and Spirit Eternally existed as distinct persons who all are the One God/being. The Son became human

Oneness: God is One being that is singularly personal (or Unipersonal) who became human and existing distinctly in three modes or manifestations.

http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/onetrindisagree.htm
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/on...asondiffer.htm

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Trinity:

God is three co equal, co eternal Persons each one God in his own right. This is said to be one being.

The second of the co eternal, co equal persons became a man without ceasing to be God.

Oneness:

There is only one God, that is the Father. He caused his word to become flesh while he was still God in his omnipesence.

He exists simultaneously at present as both God and man. Father and Son.

Wait, so you both are not in line with what Precis wrote? Difference being that Jesus was in-fact a manifestation of God, and not God's spirit working through a man?

I'm not sure why I'm having such trouble with this.....

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

Wait, so you both are not in line with what Precis wrote? Difference being that Jesus was in-fact a manifestation of God, and not God's spirit working through a man?

I'm not sure why I'm having such trouble with this.....

It can, at first, seem a bit confusing. But never fear, Jesus promised that the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth.

Scripture makes it clear in many, many places that Jesus Christ is the manifestation of the One True and Living God.

Here are a few scriptures that will help you:

1 Timothy 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 14:8-10
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:

The Apostle Paul, warns us not to be misled by the philosophies and traditions of men that would seek to deny that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (a perfect example is found above). Here is the key:

Colossians 2:8-10
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

This is an essential understanding of scripture, not the dogma of a denomination. Scripture is clear that there is only one God and that His Name is Jesus, the One God manifest in the flesh. This is so important that Jesus warned that those who refuse to accept this truth, will die in their sins:

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus makes a clear reference to the way in which God identified Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14. "I AM has sent me."

Many on here will disagree and try to mislead you through persuasive argument. The Scriptures are clear on this issue and there is much more unbiased information we can provide you.

I encourage you in your willingness to wrestle with this issue. It is one of the most rewarding revelations you will ever receive.

Please avail yourself of the links Praxeas provided for you. They are most helpful.