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  #1  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:51 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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What if I told you that...???

What if I told you that a CORPORATION is a legal entity created by the STATE???
"A Corporation is a legal entity created by permission of a state or federal government. This is where a company or a group of people are authorized by the law to act as a single legal entity. All shareholders of a corporation have a limited liability." - https://brainly.com/question/913078

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Old 10-11-2018, 05:56 PM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

It's called "piercing the corporate shield" when a need arises to reach beyond the entity to claim certain liabilities. I still remember some of business law class from college.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:57 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
What if I told you that a CORPORATION is a legal entity created by the STATE???
And yet immediately afterwards, your own definition contradicts you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
"A Corporation is a legal entity created by permission of a state or federal government.
It's created with the permission of the state, but it's not created by the state. It's still created by a group of individuals.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:17 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
And yet immediately afterwards, your own definition contradicts you.



It's created with the permission: of the state, but it's not created by the state. It's still created by a group of individuals.
The truth is, a corporation is actually created by the state upon petitioning by two or more people. A corporation is by definition a creature (creation) of the state. It is not only subject to the laws of the state granting the charter, but is created for the express purpose of promoting public policy. People get together and petition the state to grant incorporation. The state reviews the petitioning documents and, if all is well and the fees are paid, grants incorporation. Thus, the corporation is created, and is created by the state.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:19 PM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The truth is, a corporation is actually created by the state upon petitioning by two or more people. A corporation is by definition a creature (creation) of the state. It is not only subject to the laws of the state granting the charter, but is created for the express purpose of promoting public policy. People get together and petition the state to grant incorporation. The state reviews the petitioning documents and, if all is well and the fees are paid, grants incorporation. Thus, the corporation is created, and is created by the state.
Does the state actually run the business? Does the state have anything to do with the day to day operations of the business? Does the state decide what products or services the business should offer or otherwise be involved in?

No?

Then the state doesn't create the corporation, they just put their seal of approval on it. The corporation itself is still a group of people and/or other businesses (which are still run by people), who come together to form a single entity for means of making a profit.

By your logic, then the state creates marriages, just because they provide a license which validates the union.
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Sometimes hidden dangers spring on us suddenly. Those are out of our control. But when one can see the danger, and then refuses to arrest , all in the name of "God is in control", they are forfeiting God given, preventive opportunities.

Last edited by Jito463; 10-12-2018 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:12 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Does the state actually run the business? Does the state have anything to do with the day to day operations of the business? Does the state decide what products or services the business should offer or otherwise be involved in?

No?

Then the state doesn't create the corporation, they just put their seal of approval on it. The corporation itself is still a group of people and/or other businesses (which are still run by people), who come together to form a single entity for means of making a profit.

By your logic, then the state creates marriages, just because they provide a license which validates the union.
Sigh. It isn't my "logic" it's the law.

'Upon the other hand, the corporation is a creature of the state. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises, and holds them subject to the laws of the state and the limitations of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate [221 U.S. 361, 384] its contracts and find out whether it has exceeded its powers. Wilson v. United States, 221 U.S. 361, 384

"Creature of the state" is a legal term which means something that comes into existence by operation of statute, that is, by an act of the civil power.

A marriage is not a creature of the state because no new entity is created either by the granting of a license (which does NOT cause a marriage to exist) nor by recognition of the validity of a marriage performed by a non-state actor (such as a minister) nor by a performance by a state actor (such as a judge or justice of the peace). Marriage is not a legal entity, it is a CONTRACT and is treated as such.
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Last edited by Esaias; 10-12-2018 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:31 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

Furthermore, your argument, in addition to being legally false, is also illogical. You argue that if entity A is not "involved in the day to day affairs" of entity B, then it did not create entity B. This is patently untrue, unsound, and irrational.

1. Untrue, because municipalities are creations of the state yet the state does not run the municipality in its daily operations.

2. Unsound, because your premises and conclusions are false.

3. Illogical, because creation is determined by origin or causation, not continued maintenance. A group may create a corporation (assuming your claim was true, which it is not) and then assign it to some other group of directors, owners, etc, and never have any dealings with the day to day operation of the corporation. Yet, this would not mean that original group of people were not the CREATORS of the corporation.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:35 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

And yes, I have experience in this subject, because years ago I and a partner formed a General Partnership and then incorporated as an S-Corporation which we maintained for several years until it's purpose was done and at which time it became defunct.
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:41 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

Can a corporation as such legally exist without the state's permission?
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:48 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: What if I told you that...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Sigh. It isn't my "logic" it's the law.

'Upon the other hand, the corporation is a creature of the state. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises, and holds them subject to the laws of the state and the limitations of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate [221 U.S. 361, 384] its contracts and find out whether it has exceeded its powers. Wilson v. United States, 221 U.S. 361, 384

"Creature of the state" is a legal term which means something that comes into existence by operation of statute, that is, by an act of the civil power.

A marriage is not a creature of the state because no new entity is created either by the granting of a license (which does NOT cause a marriage to exist) nor by recognition of the validity of a marriage performed by a non-state actor (such as a minister) nor by a performance by a state actor (such as a judge or justice of the peace). Marriage is not a legal entity, it is a CONTRACT and is treated as such.
A civil marriage is a civil contract with the state governed by civil statute. It isn't a private contact governed strictly in accordance to the terms and conditions of the couple.

The most blatant declaration of this fact that I have ever found is a brochure entitled "With This Ring I Thee Wed." It is found in county courthouses across Ohio where people go to obtain their marriage licenses. It is published by the Ohio State Bar Association. The opening paragraph under the subtitle "Marriage Vows" states, "Actually, when you repeat your marriage vows you enter into a legal contract. There are three parties to that contract. 1.You; 2. Your husband or wife, as the case may be; and 3. the State of Ohio."

Last edited by Aquila; 10-12-2018 at 10:52 PM.
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