Is a marriage license a scam?

[Rudy]

Very interesting bro.

[Aquila]

I stumbled across this and I thought of this thread, so I'll share it here:

We live in a statist culture. Christians who develop their worldview self-consciously understand this fact of life to one degree or another. The problem is, Christians in this country have only ever lived in a statist culture. It is normal to us. We like the leeks and melons. Just like the frog in the pot slowly brought to a boil we sometimes cannot even recognize the danger of our cultural environment. So, we end up baptizing our secular - often thoroughly pagan - activities and think all is well with our Christian life.

The modern state does not care how we interpret our actions or view our relationship to it. We can think what we want. It only cares that we act in obedience and consent to its claims by signing the form. We are so used to the signature ritual, we seldom ask what we are signing away, or signing into. It's all so normal, you see. Everyone does it.

Have you ever asked yourself why Christians get a marriage license when they get married? A license is defined by Black's Law dictionary as;

"The permission by a competent authority to do an act which, without such permission, would be illegal, a trespass, or tort.... Certificate or the document itself which gives permission."

Now, that's interesting. When a Christian couple asks their state government for a marriage license, they are asking permission from that state to get married. Of course, the state doesn't care how future Mr. & Mrs. Christian interpret this act. They can think what they want. But what is important is that they sign the form.

States call this agreement a Marriage Contract. Contracts are always made between or among parties. Do you know who is always a party to any marriage contract? It is not just an agreement between Mr. and Mrs. Christian. (If it was then why would you need to sign the form offered by the state?) It is an agreement among Mr. and Mrs. Christian and the state. There are three parties to every marriage contract.

The civil government is a minister of God. We support and uphold that legitimate function of the state. But is there justification for the idea that the state owns marriage, in such a way that citizens must ask permission from the state to be "lawfully married"? Again, a license is permission to engage in an activity. This claim is not irrelevant, it is real - printed neatly in black and white. And when Christians - whether they understand it or not - ask permission for a marriage license they are agreeing to the claim of the state as being the sovereign and creator of the marriage agreement. Is this Christian or pagan?

How about the idea that the state, together with the man and woman, is a party to the marriage? This gives a whole new meaning to, "being in bed with the state"! To press the metaphor further, this logically means the state has a legal claim to the progeny of that agreement. This is why the state is justified in using force against godly Christian families (e.g.. homeschooling issues). The parents voluntarily gave authority over their children by making the State a party to the contract that produced them. It is time to recognize paganism for what it is. Let's go further. It's time to stop acting like pagan state worshipers when it comes to marriage. Since marriage is a picture of Christ's intimate union with his bride, the Church, inviting any other into this lawful union profanes and adulterates it. In so doing we present a false gospel picture to the world and to ourselves.

Marriage is not a union designed for convenience. It is not the property of the state. It is indeed ordained for three parties but we dare not substitute the "state" for our Lord, Jesus Christ. There is no biblical justification for Christian participation in marriage licenses and contracts. They are pagan to the core. They testify to the "god-state", not to the reality of Christ's relationship to his Church.

[dpseudonym]

Here is a question for you: If a couple had a wedding ceremony in the Church, but did not get a marriage license, are they married in the sight of God?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by dpseudonym

Here is a question for you: If a couple had a wedding ceremony in the Church, but did not get a marriage license, are they married in the sight of God?

Only if their marriage can be Biblically defined as marriage. Whether inside or outside of a church building, or with or without a state license, has little bearing on the issue. The church was never authorized by God to be the power that ratifies or solemnizes marriage, neither was the state.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by dpseudonym

Here is a question for you: If a couple had a wedding ceremony in the Church, but did not get a marriage license, are they married in the sight of God?

Different churches will most likely have different positions on this. I believe that if their union meets the description of a biblical marriage, it is a marriage... even if the state doesn't recognize it as a "civil marriage".

Quakers have recognized these more private unions as valid marriages in the eyes of God since their founding. And some churches have statements on marriage that read something like this...

Elders serving in Christian ministry within The Graceway Fellowship are to disengage civil marriage from Christian marriage in the performance of pastoral duties. Elders are to refuse to serve as agents of the state in marriage. Elders are to decline from signing government provided marriage licenses and/or certificates. Elders are to ask that couples seek civil marriage separately from any church-related vows, promises, commitments, and/or blessings.

Many churches have committed to, The Marriage Pledge (https://www.firstthings.com/marriage-pledge). It reads:

In many jurisdictions, including many of the United States, civil authorities have adopted a definition of marriage that explicitly rejects the age-old requirement of male-female pairing. In a few short years or even months, it is very likely that this new definition will become the law of the land, and in all jurisdictions the rights, privileges, and duties of marriage will be granted to men in partnership with men, and women with women.

As Christian ministers we must bear clear witness. This is a perilous time. Divorce and co-..habitation have weakened marriage. We have been too complacent in our responses to these trends. Now marriage is being fundamentally redefined, and we are ..being tested yet again. If we fail to take clear action, we risk falsifying God’s Word.

The new definition of marriage no longer coincides with the Christian understanding of marriage between a man and woman. Our biblical faith is committed to upholding, celebrating, and furthering this understanding, which is stated many times within the Scriptures and has been repeatedly restated in our wedding ceremonies, church laws, and doctrinal standards for centuries. To continue with church practices that intertwine government marriage with Christian marriage will implicate the Church in a false definition of marriage.

Therefore, in our roles as Christian ministers, we, the undersigned, commit ourselves to disengaging civil and Christian marriage in the performance of our pastoral duties. We will no longer serve as agents of the state in marriage. We will no longer sign government-provided marriage certificates. We will ask couples to seek civil marriage separately from their church-related vows and blessings. We will preside only at those weddings that seek to establish a Christian marriage in accord with the principles ..articulated and lived out from the beginning of the Church’s life.

Please join us in this pledge to separate civil marriage from Christian marriage by adding your name.

Drafted by:

The Reverend Ephraim Radner

The Reverend Christopher Seitz

Laymen are welcome to sign to express support for pastors making this pledge. –Ed.

For all media inquiries regarding the marriage pledge, please contact First Things at 212-627-1985 or via email at ft@firstthings.com.

Even the Baptist Standard has several articles on the subject:

Bad idea for ministers to sign marriage licenses, pastors insist
https://www.baptiststandard.com/news...pastors-insist

These Baptist churches went as far as to even design their very own marriage covenant certificates for couples who do not seek government licensing of their unions (as seen in the article above).

Ultimately, it depends on your own faith and conviction, in addition to the position of your church or fellowship.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Only if their marriage can be Biblically defined as marriage. Whether inside or outside of a church building, or with or without a state license, has little bearing on the issue. The church was never authorized by God to be the power that ratifies or solemnizes marriage, neither was the state.

Our fellowship only blesses couples. We don't perform weddings. We encourage couples to seek civil marriage on their own.

[Rudy]

Here is what's coming down the pipe!!

https://onsizzle.com/i/not-gender-lo...age-not-889705

[Esaias]

That was disgusting. Sorry I clicked on it.

[Rudy]

Yep it is disgusting. They are pushing also to lower the age of consent too. Canada did.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Here is what's coming down the pipe!!

https://onsizzle.com/i/not-gender-lo...age-not-889705

Man's sinful nature knows no bounds. How do you associate this issue with this topic? I'm just curious.