I still think the greatest miracle of all is a life completely changed by the power of the Holy Ghost residing in them. That is the greatest miracle of all.
Jesus spent much time going about healing folks, but the thing he was concerned about while here on earth, was not how many were being healed and so forth, but many times the record stands that he would ask them... do you believe? That was, and still is the greatest question today... do you believe? The signs and wonders follow them that believe, and we are NOT to follow the signs and wonders though.
Jesus grew very weary of people following him just for signs, wonders, and healings. He longed for people to desire more than just to be healed... He wanted them to KNOW who He was.
You see the greatest miracle of all has already taken place in each of the believers in Christ, our faith in HIM resulting in our life being transformed.
Now the signs, wonders, and healings can and do take place. I'm sure each one of us here could testify of a time that God touched and healed us, either in sickness, financial difficulty, or supernatural protection in some way. Each one of us can vouch and verify the hand of God on our lives, if we are true believers.
Why look for the "signs and wonders" somewhere else, when they are right in front of our eyes!
And another point to consider is Hezekiah. He begged God for a healing when he was about to die. At that point in his life, he was very close to God, and if he had died, he would have died with faith in his heart towards God. But we read further on in his story, and after God healed him, he departed from his faith in God, and died a bitter lost soul with many, many regrets!
That is why I am very careful to pray for God's will in each situation needing a miracle. We don't know if God has a greater purpose in allowing the pain and suffering for a greater purpose. And that if by begging and pleading God, and he undertakes, and answers our prayer... it may be answered to our own detriment, as in Hezekiah's case.
So I always plead for God's great mercy, love and knowledge of the future when asking him to intervene in a situation needing a miracle. He always knows best, even when we cannot see past today. I would always want his perfect will, in every case, and every scenario, no matter how desperate. I would never want a miracle to occur in my life, and then in the end lose out in my faith in God.
That is why I pray God's will be done over every impossible situation.
This ignores that God would not have done it if you had not intervened and requested that will of God here on earth--or may have done it through someone else, etc?
So, sometimes God wants to heal a sick child (or whatever), but won't do it until someone asks? Must break His heart to let a baby die just because the parents never prayed. I guess.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
So, sometimes God wants to heal a sick child (or whatever), but won't do it until someone asks? Must break His heart to let a baby die just because the parents never prayed. I guess.
Not fully saying I agree with the premise presented in this argument, but for the sake of discussion I'd like to follow it through. Why would it break his heart? I believe babies are before the age of accountability, so the baby would be with the Lord eternally, in no pain, at peace, and in the presence of rejoicing. God sees the big picture, therefore I God justily knows that for a baby to leave suffering of this world is actually better for the baby.
Secondly, there are many things that God would love to do, but doesn't because he's not invited to do them. God is a gentleman. I believe He actually said that His will is that none perish... but He won't force rescue on anyone.
I don't read anywhere that a door is opened... even if they never knock, or that answers are ever found... even if they never search... or that it's given... if they never ask.
Not fully saying I agree with the premise presented in this argument, but for the sake of discussion I'd like to follow it through. Why would it break his heart? I believe babies are before the age of accountability, so the baby would be with the Lord eternally, in no pain, at peace, and in the presence of rejoicing. God sees the big picture, therefore I God justily knows that for a baby to leave suffering of this world is actually better for the baby.
Secondly, there are many things that God would love to do, but doesn't because he's not invited to do them. God is a gentleman. I believe He actually said that His will is that none perish... but He won't force rescue on anyone.
I don't read anywhere that a door is opened... even if they never knock, or that answers are ever found... even if they never search... or that it's given... if they never ask.
OK, you have a point there. From God's point of view, a dead baby is a good thing, indeed. (But nobody is supposed to carry that logic through to its only possible conclusion: that it is good to kill babies. Please. Don't.)
How about a sick adult? Did God let my brother die of cancer because He never heard a request for healing, or because He wanted him to die?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
OK, you have a point there. From God's point of view, a dead baby is a good thing, indeed. (But nobody is supposed to carry that logic through to its only possible conclusion: that it is good to kill babies. Please. Don't.)
How about a sick adult? Did God let my brother die of cancer because He never heard a request for healing, or because He wanted him to die?
And that modification to the original premise is really why I was hesitant about following the logic all the way through. That is actually a different premise, and honestly one that I don't find an answer to in the Word of God.
When we begin to build doctrines and teachings from the Word, we have to be careful of the antithesis statement that doctrine is also making so that we can follow it all the way through. Where Bro. Jay stated earlier that someone has to ask, I don't see that in the Scriptures.
The principle that I see in Scripture is that if we do ask, it shall be given, if we do seek, we shall find, etc. But to push that to the conclusion that if nothing's ever asked for it won't be done is taking the Scriptures way beyond what they are saying. I think we have to take them at face value.... that asking makes a huge difference.
In the end, we all know that God has worked in many of our lives in situations we didn't even know we needed to ask for anything yet... kept back situations we weren't even aware of... so I can't see anything in the Word that says, healings may be withheld just because you didn't ask.
And that modification to the original premise is really why I was hesitant about following the logic all the way through. That is actually a different premise, and honestly one that I don't find an answer to in the Word of God.
When we begin to build doctrines and teachings from the Word, we have to be careful of the antithesis statement that doctrine is also making so that we can follow it all the way through. Where Bro. Jay stated earlier that someone has to ask, I don't see that in the Scriptures.
The principle that I see in Scripture is that if we do ask, it shall be given, if we do seek, we shall find, etc. But to push that to the conclusion that if nothing's ever asked for it won't be done is taking the Scriptures way beyond what they are saying. I think we have to take them at face value.... that asking makes a huge difference.
In the end, we all know that God has worked in many of our lives in situations we didn't even know we needed to ask for anything yet... kept back situations we weren't even aware of... so I can't see anything in the Word that says, healings may be withheld just because you didn't ask.
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Which also handily explains why we sometimes don't get what we ask for: we ask "amiss". Any thoughts on that?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Which also handily explains why we sometimes don't get what we ask for: we ask "amiss". Any thoughts on that?
This Scripture unfortunately is proof texted so many times, and taken out of the context of the overall thought that James is trying to relay. James is talking about where our confidence, and our trust is. He talks about all the warring, and effort and striving we have for the things we desire, and all that effort so many times ends up in nothing but our frustration and still wanting.... when if we would just lay our desires, wants, needs, and cares with the Lord... we will find solice in laying our cares at the feet of the Lord.
If anyone takes James to be saying, the whole reason you are in lack is because you haven't hit the formula right in how you ask, or because you didn't ask, then they are taking this Scripture totally out of it's context and therefore proof texting it.
James is writing to some people that have issues obviously with depending on their flesh rather than God. These particular verses you note would be best incapsulated by the old song line, "...oh what peace we often forfeit, oh what needless pain we bare. All because we do not carry, everything to God in prayer..."
Aquila, I like what you said... basically it is our desperate need of God, and desperate faith that will generally bring about the healing work of God.
Signs and wonders follow them that believe, not the other way around. We want to look FOR the signs and wonders, but Jesus said only they would FOLLOW them that believe.
Is faith completely necessary for a miracle?
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
I know your question wasn't to me, but I'd like to chime my thoughts in... I would say no...it's not necessary, but makes the environment much more favorable for it to occur. The creation of this world was a miracle, but didn't take anyone humans faith for it to come about.
To me it's like those airplants you see growing on magnets that people buy and put on the refrigerator. If someone says that all plants must have dirt to live, then they discount the airplant. Doesn't need dirt or have to be watered. It gets it's moisture from the air. It's nutrients from the air.
However, give me some dirt and some water, and some sunshine.... and it's much more favorable of all the things I can grow there, not just airplants, but all kinds of plants.
I know your question wasn't to me, but I'd like to chime my thoughts in... I would say no...it's not necessary, but makes the environment much more favorable for it to occur. The creation of this world was a miracle, but didn't take anyone humans faith for it to come about.
To me it's like those airplants you see growing on magnets that people buy and put on the refrigerator. If someone says that all plants must have dirt to live, then they discount the airplant. Doesn't need dirt or have to be watered. It gets it's moisture from the air. It's nutrients from the air.
However, give me some dirt and some water, and some sunshine.... and it's much more favorable of all the things I can grow there, not just airplants, but all kinds of plants.
Good answer. I always was of the opinion that faith was an absolute for a miracle, but two things changed my mind:
1.) 2 Timothy 2:13"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself"
2.) When Jesus told Peter to cast his nets again into the water, Peter did not believe that the fish would be there, he just did it to appease Jesus....and, maybe even to prove him wrong.
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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