Jews are not "the elect"

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Jesus is Lord!



Who fought with the angel?
Jacob (after the flesh) fought with the angel...and prevailed. His name was
changed to iSRAEL (according to the Spirit). And so it is today. The nation
in the middle east represents Jacob; but the remnant, represents Jacob after
he received the blessing.

Although Jacob's name was changed to Israel, he did NOT receive the blessing
until he asked to know the angel's name: "And Jacob asked him, and said, 'Tell
me, I pray thee, thy name.' And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after
my name? And he blessed him there." So WHY was Israel blessed? Because
he asked for the angel's name. Or have we forgotten:
"Whosoever calls upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved."

Brother Villa

Although I disagree that the current nation in the middle east calling itself "Israel" represents Jacob, your statements are insightful into the why and wherefore of the name change from Jacob to Israel.

The name of God's people is intimately connected to them knowing the name of their God. Thus, the identity of God's people is connected to them knowing His name. In Judges chapter 6, the people had fallen into sin, and were being oppressed by the heathen. A prophet is sent, and his message begins with a reminder to them of who exactly their God is.

Judges 6:1-10 KJV And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years. (2) And the hand of Midian prevailed against Israel: and because of the Midianites the children of Israel made them the dens which are in the mountains, and caves, and strong holds. (3) And so it was, when Israel had sown, that the Midianites came up, and the Amalekites, and the children of the east, even they came up against them; (4) And they encamped against them, and destroyed the increase of the earth, till thou come unto Gaza, and left no sustenance for Israel, neither sheep, nor ox, nor ass. (5) For they came up with their cattle and their tents, and they came as grasshoppers for multitude; for both they and their camels were without number: and they entered into the land to destroy it. (6) And Israel was greatly impoverished because of the Midianites; and the children of Israel cried unto the LORD. (7) And it came to pass, when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD because of the Midianites, (8) That the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel, which said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and brought you forth out of the house of bondage; (9) And I delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all that oppressed you, and drave them out from before you, and gave you their land; (10) And I said unto you, I am the LORD your God; fear not the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but ye have not obeyed my voice.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Esaias

Although I disagree that the current nation in the middle east calling itself "Israel" represents Jacob,
your statements are insightful into the why and wherefore of the name change from Jacob to Israel.

The name of God's people is intimately connected to them knowing the name of their God.
Thus, the identity of God's people is connected to them knowing His name. In Judges chapter 6,
the people had fallen into sin, and were being oppressed by the heathen. A prophet is sent, and
his message begins with a reminder to them of who exactly their God is.

Judges 6:1-10 KJV And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered
them into the hand of Midian seven years. (2) And the hand of Midian prevailed against Israel:
and because of the Midianites the children of Israel made them the dens which are in the mountains, and
caves, and strong holds. (3) And so it was, when Israel had sown, that the Midianites came up, and
the Amalekites, and the children of the east, even they came up against them; (4) And they encamped
against them, and destroyed the increase of the earth, till thou come unto Gaza, and left no sustenance
for Israel, neither sheep, nor ox, nor ass. (5) For they came up with their cattle and their tents, and they
came as grasshoppers for multitude; for both they and their camels were without number: and they
entered into the land to destroy it. (6) And Israel was greatly impoverished because of the Midianites; and
the children of Israel cried unto the LORD. (7) And it came to pass, when the children of Israel cried unto
the LORD because of the Midianites, (8) That the LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel,
which said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought you up from Egypt, and brought
you forth out of the house of bondage; (9) And I delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians,
and out of the hand of all that oppressed you, and drave them out from before you, and gave you
their land; (10) And I said unto you, I am the LORD your God; fear not the gods of the Amorites,
in whose land ye dwell: but ye have not obeyed my voice.

Beloved, I submit that Israel (the nation in the natural realm) represents the Patriarch Jacob prior to Jacob receiving the blessing from the angel;however,
Israel (the name) refers to the remnant.

It is my understanding that no one knew the NAME of the Lord until it was first
revealed to Moses: "...I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by
the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
Those who believed in God, prayed to El-ohim (God Almighty = The ONE who has
all might and power). But the NAME that promised salvation was FIRST revealed
only to Moses. [Je-hovah is God's NAME of Promise]

I also believe that God's prophet reminded the Jews that they were descendants of
Jacob; however, "...in Isaac shall thy seed be called...": no one will receive the
blessing through Jacob, but it (the blessing) comes only through the seed of the
one who received the blessing: Israel!

The question now becomes: Who Is Israel? The answer: "And these all, having
obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having
provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be
made perfect."

Brother Villa-

[houston]

Galatians, anyone? Paul wrote that the Jew is spiritual, through Isaac- the child of promise.
What was the promise? No some piece of real estate.
Isaac and not Esau.
Mt Zion, not Mt Sinai.

[thephnxman]

His NAme IS jESUS!

Originally Posted by houston

Galatians, anyone? Paul wrote that the Jew is spiritual, through Isaac- the child of promise.
What was the promise? No some piece of real estate.
Isaac and not Esau.
Mt Zion, not Mt Sinai.

Good.

Brother Villa

[Sean]

And who really believes that in the end of the "great tribulation" most or all of the Jews will suddenly become Jesus name apostolic pentecostals? I mean besides Irwin Baxter and Lee Stoneking?

Jesus name apostolic pentecostals have become part of the promise to future national Israel.

You have it backwards....the promise to them was made over 1000 years before we were adopted into it.

[Sean]

Anyone that says there is no future promise to future national Israel, calls God a liar and teaches replacement theology.

The only way these particular folks can keep from doing so, is to completely ignore every single verse(promise) regarding future national Israel.

[Sean]

The fake news preterists claim that they are inclusion theology.

They include themselves into those promises by God DESTROYING Israel....LOL

That is like killing off all American citizens to give our country to illegal immigrants.

That is not inclusion, but a hostile take over and genocide.....LOL

[Sean]

Preterists think God said this...."I will replace, I mean include the church into future national Israel's future promise after I destroy them"...LOL