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  #71  
Old 06-18-2013, 08:05 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
The real problem with Islam is that it's the most violent religion on the face of the earth today.

The positive side is that the rate of violence in Muslim countries is far lower than the rate of violence in the West (and especially in the US)
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  #72  
Old 06-18-2013, 08:18 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
The positive side is that the rate of violence in Muslim countries is far lower than the rate of violence in the West (and especially in the US)
You'll not find the rate of violence in any religion which comes close to the sunni-shia religious violence.

Islam is the most violent religion on the face of the earth today.
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  #73  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:19 AM
odooley6985 odooley6985 is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
You'll not find the rate of violence in any religion which comes close to the sunni-shia religious violence.

Islam is the most violent religion on the face of the earth today.
Islam is not the most violent religion. Some misguided muslims are the violent ones. I can defend that part of islam.
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  #74  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:39 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
Gal 3:10 "All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." ??

Gal 3:16 and to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed; He doth not say, `And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, `And to thy seed,' which is Christ

"For to you and your DESCENDANTS I will give all these lands and will CONFIRM THE OATH I SWORE TO YOUR FATHER ABRAHAM. I will make your DESCENDANTS as NUMEROUS AS THE STARS IN THE SKY and will give THEM all these lands, and through your OFFSPRING all nations on earth will be blessed, BECAUSE ABRAHAM OBEYED ME AND KEPT MY REQUIREMENTS, MY COMMANDS, MY DECREES AND MY LAWS."


That is my biggest issue with Galatians. It directly contradicts words attributed both in the bible and in the Quran to God.
No contradiction, you just do not interpret the Abrahamic promises and the curse of the Law the same way that the earliest Christians did.

Now, let's talk about the Koran, shall we?

Nobody can see Allah: sura 6:103 "No visions can encompass Him, but He encompasses all visions. He is the Compassionate, the Cognizant."

Mohammed saw Allah: sura 81:23 "He saw him at the high horizon."; sura 53:7-18 "At the highest horizon. He drew nearer by moving down. Until He became as close as possible. He then revealed to His servant what was to be revealed. The mind never made up what it saw. Are you doubting what he saw? He saw him in another descent. At the ultimate point. Where the eternal Paradise is located. The whole place was overwhelmed. The eyes did not waver, nor go blind. He saw great signs of his Lord."

Note: From Hadith - "Sahih Muslim Book 01. Faith
Chapter : The meaning of the words of Allah: "He saw Him in another descent" (Al-Qur'an 2, liii. 13).Did the Apostle (may peace be upon him) see his Lord on the night of his journey (to Heaven) ?.
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas that the words: "The heart belied not what he saw" (al-Qur'an, liii. 11) and "Certainly he saw Him in another descent" (al-Qur'an, liii. 13) imply that he saw him twice with his heart." (see http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmus...mber-0335.html )

Speaking of self contradictory verses in which the contradiction appears when context is ignored, we have this one - sura 4:171 "Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity."

Any Muslim therefore who says the word 'trinity' (I believe the actual word used is 'three') has disobeyed this sura. Especially if any Muslim recites this sura.

The people of Sodom said only one thing: sura 7:82 But the answer of his people was only that they said, "Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure." ... or they said only one thing else: sura 29:29b And the answer of his people was not but they said, "Bring us the punishment of Allah , if you should be of the truthful."

Need we continue?
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  #75  
Old 06-19-2013, 10:46 AM
soopy soopy is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
You'll not find the rate of violence in any religion which comes close to the sunni-shia religious violence.

Islam is the most violent religion on the face of the earth today.
What is religion, then? You think that somehow, you are better? Here, you want terrorists? Look at what you condone, every time you eat. You, and the hater looking for enemies, above. http://www.motherjones.com/environme...s-mowmar-farms
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  #76  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:00 AM
soopy soopy is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

ok, and just for the record, this is anything but an isolated incident (just have a look at your, YOUR, fraternities, for Christ's sake. Jesus. That you actually have the stones to point a finger is hilarrious.
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  #77  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:01 AM
soopy soopy is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by odooley6985 View Post
Islam is not the most violent religion. Some misguided muslims are the violent ones. I can defend that part of islam.
good luck with that-you are talking to a broken record.
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  #78  
Old 06-19-2013, 06:24 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
No contradiction, you just do not interpret the Abrahamic promises and the curse of the Law the same way that the earliest Christians did.

Now, let's talk about the Koran, shall we?

Nobody can see Allah: sura 6:103 "No visions can encompass Him, but He encompasses all visions. He is the Compassionate, the Cognizant."

Mohammed saw Allah: sura 81:23 "He saw him at the high horizon."; sura 53:7-18 "At the highest horizon. He drew nearer by moving down. Until He became as close as possible. He then revealed to His servant what was to be revealed. The mind never made up what it saw. Are you doubting what he saw? He saw him in another descent. At the ultimate point. Where the eternal Paradise is located. The whole place was overwhelmed. The eyes did not waver, nor go blind. He saw great signs of his Lord."

(laughing) This is referring to Gabriel

Note: From Hadith - "Sahih Muslim Book 01. Faith
Chapter : The meaning of the words of Allah: "He saw Him in another descent" (Al-Qur'an 2, liii. 13).Did the Apostle (may peace be upon him) see his Lord on the night of his journey (to Heaven) ?.
It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas that the words: "The heart belied not what he saw" (al-Qur'an, liii. 11) and "Certainly he saw Him in another descent" (al-Qur'an, liii. 13) imply that he saw him twice with his heart." (see http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmus...mber-0335.html )

Speaking of self contradictory verses in which the contradiction appears when context is ignored, we have this one - sura 4:171 "Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity."

In reference to God it is forbidden to refer to Him as a "Trinity"

Any Muslim therefore who says the word 'trinity' (I believe the actual word used is 'three') has disobeyed this sura. Especially if any Muslim recites this sura.

The people of Sodom said only one thing: sura 7:82 But the answer of his people was only that they said, "Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure." ... or they said only one thing else: sura 29:29b And the answer of his people was not but they said, "Bring us the punishment of Allah , if you should be of the truthful."

Need we continue?
LOL I'll help you!

http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html

That way you don't have to cut and paste
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  #79  
Old 06-19-2013, 07:25 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
The positive side is that the rate of violence in Muslim countries is far lower than the rate of violence in the West (and especially in the US)
Maybe so but the "west" aren't "Christian" countries

While we are talking stats, here are some interesting ones we may not know about (we already know how bad the US is)

Alcohol & Drugs

  • Alcohol consumption in Muslim regions of the world (Middle East and North Africa) increased by 25% in 5 years.
  • In 2007, Afghanistan produced an extraordinary 8,200 tonnes of opium (93% of the global opiates market).
  • Saudi Arabia is the world’s 6th largest consumer of anti-impotence drugs, demand is 10 times that of Russia.
In 2010 Malaysia was the world's tenth largest consumer of alcohol. (read more)

Children

  • 4 out of 5 Middle-Eastern women are sexually abused between the ages of 3 and 6 by family members.
  • More than half of all Yemeni girls are married before reaching puberty.
  • About 1 in 10 pregnancies in the Arab world ends in abortion. In Pakistan every 6th pregnancy is terminated.
94% of Yemeni children (2-14 yrs) subjected to violence from a parent or guardian. (read more)


Crime & Prejudice

  • 2011 Pew study finds Muslims are more "phobic" of non-Muslims than the non-Muslims are "Islamophobic" of Muslims.
  • According to FBI 2008 statistics, anti-Muslim incidents in the US are dropping and only account for 1.3% of all hate crimes.
  • Jewish victims of hate crimes in the US outnumber Muslim victims by a 10-1 ratio.
Anti-Christian hate crime incidents outnumber anti-Muslim incidents in the US. (read more)


Free Speech

  • Turkey has more journalists in prison than any other country in the world, almost double that of China and Iran.
  • 40% of Indonesian Muslims say they would use violence against those blaspheming Islam.
  • 78% of British Muslims support punishing people who publish cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad.
Since 1990, 52 people accused of blasphemy in Pakistan have been extra-judicially killed by lynch mobs. (read more)

Homosexuals

  • Homosexual relationships, acts or behavior illegal in 36 Islamic countries. 10 impose the death penalty for homosexuals.
  • As of 1999 in Iran, more than 4000 lesbians and gays had been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution.
  • Two thirds of all reported incidents of anti-gay violence in Amsterdam are by Muslim youths.
A 2009 Gallup survey could not find a single UK Muslim who approved of homosexuality. (read more)

Mosques

  • Iran has the lowest mosque attendance of any Muslim country, with less than 2% of adults attending Friday services.
  • 25% of UK mosques have extremist literature calling for the beheading of lapsed Muslims etc.
  • Almost 80 percent (3 out of every 4) of US mosques preach anti-West extremism.
Mosque attendance is dropping faster than church attendance in the Netherlands. (read more)

Population

  • Only 3% of the world's Muslims live in "more-developed regions, such as Europe, N. America, Australia, New Zealand and Japan".
  • Pew study finds Islam loses as many adherents via conversion as it gains. Growing numbers only due to high birth rate etc.
  • Muslim population of France only 12%, yet they make up 60 to 70% of all inmates in France's prisons.
75% of new Muslim converts in the US leave Islam within a few years. (read more)

Ramadan & Eid

  • Productivity of Arab businesses drops by 78%, and there are increases in blood crimes (+1.5%) and theft (+3.5%)
  • Child trafficking increases in Yemen during Ramadan as food prices rise and parents struggle to provide for their children.
  • In the Netherlands alone, which has only a million Muslims, 100,000 animals were slaughtered in 2010 for Eid al-Adha.
Number of Jakarta prostitutes caught increased from 94, before Ramadan [2006], to 264 during it. (read more)

Scripture

  • There are 164 Jihad verses in the Qur'an & nearly 500 verses (roughly 1 out of every 12) that speak of Hell.
  • Practicing Muslims recite anti-Semitic & anti-Christian rhetoric at least 17 times a day, and over 5,000 times a year.
  • Compared to Mein Kampf, the non-abrogated Medinan verses of the Qur'an contain more than 2x the amount of anti-Jewish text.
122 peaceful Qur'anic verses have been abrogated by the Sword verse (9:5) and Fighting verse (9:29). (read more)

Slavery

  • Africans taken (or died in the process of being taken) as slaves by Muslims is estimated to be higher than 140 million.
  • 1.25 million white European Christians were captured and sold into the Muslim slave trade between the 16th and 19th century.
  • The Islamic slave trade still flourishes in Muslim countries. There are over half a million slaves in Mauritania alone.
Christian Solidarity International (CSI) has liberated over 80,000 Sudanese slaves taken captive by Arab Muslims. (read more)

Slavery

  • Africans taken (or died in the process of being taken) as slaves by Muslims is estimated to be higher than 140 million.
  • 1.25 million white European Christians were captured and sold into the Muslim slave trade between the 16th and 19th century.
  • The Islamic slave trade still flourishes in Muslim countries. There are over half a million slaves in Mauritania alone.
Christian Solidarity International (CSI) has liberated over 80,000 Sudanese slaves taken captive by Arab Muslims. (read more)
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  #80  
Old 06-19-2013, 07:26 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The REAL problem with Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
The positive side is that the rate of violence in Muslim countries is far lower than the rate of violence in the West (and especially in the US)
Antisemitism

  • Pew survey finds all 7 Muslim-majority nations polled have a negative opinion of Jews (2-9% positive).
  • Antisemitic incidents around the world more than doubled in 2009 over the previous year.
  • Pew survey finds 100% of Jordanians have either "somewhat unfavorable" or "very unfavorable" views of Jews.
Most violent attacks on Jews in Western Europe comes from people of Arab/Muslim heritage. (read more)

Conspiracy Theories

  • 2011 Pew poll finds 1 out of every 10 Muslim American thinks President Obama is really a Muslim.
  • 46% of UK Muslims believe "the Jewish community in Britain is in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics."
  • 64% in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, and Indonesia believe it is US foreign policy to spread Christianity in the Middle-East.
Most Muslims in all 8 nations polled in 2011 believe 9/11 attacks were not by Arabs (57-75%). (read more)

ducation & Employment

  • Under the Ottoman empire, worldwide Muslim literacy rates were only 2 to 3% in the early nineteenth century.
  • 6 out of 10 Muslims worldwide still cannot read (as opposed to only 2 out of 10 people in "Christendom")
  • Nearly 1 in 3 people in the Arab world are illiterate, including nearly half of all women.
  • Muslims in Denmark make up 5% of the population but receive 40% of social-welfare outlays. (read more)


Health & Disability

  • A rough estimate shows that close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred.
  • Muslim countries have the highest obesity rates among women and 70% of women in the Gulf states are obese.
  • 21 out of 22 countries most affected by birth defects per 1000 live births are Muslim majority countries.
Almost a 1/4 of Muslims say they would only donate an organ if it was going to another Muslim. (read more)

Honor Violence

  • 91 percent of all honor-related killings around the world are carried out by Muslims (84% in US, 96% in Europe).
  • The number of honor killings in Pakistan are estimated to be around 2,500 to 3,000 cases every year.
  • Nearly 3,000 honor attacks mainly carried out against Muslim women were recorded by British police in 2010.
More than two-thirds of all murders in the Gaza Strip and West Bank are honor killings. (read more)

Persecution

  • There are 7 countries in the world where the state can execute you for being atheist. Every single one is officially Islamic.
  • 9 of the top 10 persecutors of Christians are Islamic countries. Of the top 50 countries, only 12 have a source other than Islam.
  • Turkey tops list of countries violating the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) for 3 consecutive years.
As of 2010, Indonesia had over 150 religiously motivated regulations restricting minorities’ rights. (read more)

Pornography

  • Google survey finds mostly Muslim states seek access to sex-related websites (they rank 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 & 8 in the top 10).
  • Iranians made the highest number of visits to "immoral sites" on Ashura Day.
  • Approximately 2 million online users watch pornographic films each minute in Turkey.
Pakistan ranked No. 1 in searches for "child sex," "animal sex," "rape sex," "camel sex," "dog sex," "rape video." (read more)


Shari'ah

  • 1 out of 3 British Muslims aged 16 to 24 believe that Muslim apostates should be executed.
  • Majority of worlds Muslims favor changing laws in their countries to allow stoning/amputation for "crimes", and death for apostasy.
  • Only 26% of Muslims in Turkey say they would adhere to laws passed by Parliament if it contradicted religious laws.
Poll finds neither education nor age explains attitudes toward the role of Shari’ah in legislation. (read more)

Terrorism

  • 2012 report finds the majority of world's terrorism committed by Muslims. Almost 9000 deaths caused by Sunni terrorists in 2011.
  • Esposito/Mogahed find almost 4 out of 10 Muslims worldwide are extremists who think 9/11 was totally/partially/somewhat justified.
  • More than 95% of all suicide bombing attacks conducted worldwide are carried out by Muslims.
2011 Study finds no link between poverty and support for militant Islamic groups. (read more)

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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