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  #11  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:33 PM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

I met an Indian Brother who was Trinity Pentecostal in 1977. He had Church in his house. He was a serious man and we became good friends. He was from a world wide Church that started in Sri Lanka in the 1920's. He migrated from India to America. The Church now known as The Pentecostal Mission.

At that time he was 100% with this group and encouraged me to visit their main Church in Washington DC. I really was not expecting much but I was surprised! The group there was far more of a New Testament Church than any I had seen. I believe I saw more faith, love, and holiness among them than any group I have known.

There were many healings and cases of demons being cast out. Faith was preached as absolute for healing. Being treated by Doctors was considered a sin. They were very strong about the sermon on the mount. Their teaching on heart purity was excellent. The ministers there lived (and still do) communally.

To join the ministry one had to commit to two points other than their foundation doctrines.

You could never ask for money.

This really amazed me because I was used to seeing Pentecostal Preachers begging, pleading, and deceiving for offerings.

The other thing was you could never go to a Doctor or take any medicine.

My first impression of them was I thought I had found the true Church!

They prayed VERY fervently like I had never seen. People received the Holy Ghost regularly.

In those days I was just beginning to really search out the truth of Acts 2:38. I remained friends with this Pastor for several years before joining his group. During that time I got baptized in Jesus name at a Charismatic Church.

After that I became a member of this Pastors Church. He opposed my baptism strongly but still made me an Elder in the Church. I taught there every third Sunday for about a year.

Altho I loved this Pastor and his small house Church and really was glad to get to know the Ministers and people of the much larger group they were pre trib and Trinity and strong for women preachers. Their "standards" as to dress were the same as Apostolics except the women wore vails.

I loved the meekness and gentleness of many of the people there they seemed "Christlike".

Nonetheless in the end my desire for all I could get of Jesus and his truth led me to part ways with them.

Eventually I taught Jesus name baptism to the Church and was forced to leave.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 07-17-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2019, 12:39 PM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

Fellowship would certainly be tricky.

I, for one, wouldn't have an issue with attending their revivals, camp meetings, gospel sings, or anything like that, as long as they were in the right intent and the Lord was moving there. No issue. Sure, they aren't in the fullness of the Truth, but I wouldn't entirely cut them off.

However, issues can arise, especially for pastors with new converts in their congregations. It wouldn't be wise to take new converts to a Church of God meeting, or I wouldn't say it would be. Matters of holiness and separation, any Trinitarian views on God, and stuff like that would certainly lead to confusion, and, in some cases, cause people to go the wrong direction from the Truth you're slowly trying to get them to see, understand, and accept as such.

It's something that would take some prayer, and even still I'd be cautious with it personally.

At the same time, however, I wouldn't say my Mother's church is any different than most Church of God churches out there today. They're independent, but are Oneness and baptize in Jesus' name. Any standard of outward holiness is dying with the blue-haired grannies and papas that don't have the strength to stand for it anymore, but yet they still aren't enticed with prosperity gospels or ideas that the Holy Ghost isn't evidenced by tongues and so forth.

So I'd still label them Pentecostal, but they're pushing fast towards that Charismatic changeover.
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Last edited by Holy Roller; 07-17-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:04 PM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

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Originally Posted by Holy Roller View Post
Interesting. Are you still a member of the Church of God, or are you a full-fledged Apostolic now?
He is ex upc. Currently A of G.
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:08 PM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

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He is ex upc. Currently A of G.
And always a gentleman.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2019, 03:27 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is online now
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

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And always a gentleman.
:
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2019, 12:27 AM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

I have no problem fellowshipping with them
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #17  
Old 07-18-2019, 07:37 AM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
He is ex upc. Currently A of G.
Alright. He certainly seems nice.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2019, 08:36 AM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

I've heard my Pastor, his family, and older saints in my church tell stories about how our church once enjoyed healthy fellowships with Trinitarian Holiness Pentecostals. The grandfather that pastored the church back in the 1960s and 1970s had a strong fellowship with a pastor of a Church of God of Prophecy church. According to the story, these two churches got along well because they agreed on such aspects as holiness, separation, the Holy Ghost, and speaking in tongues. Naturally, views on God being one and triune caused some differences, but as long as there wasn’t too much emphasis on either, the fellowship was strong.

The story continues, and comes to a drastic turn of events during a fellowship meeting. The grandfather pastor of my church was led to preach on the Oneness of God and how our God doesn’t need to be put in a box and that we don’t need any other doctrines to define Him. After a bit, this Trinitarian pastor stands up and says some variation of the following: "It's Jesus. It's all about Jesus. I'll throw the other two away." Now, he was saying that he saw Oneness, and that all of God was in Jesus, and that "the other two" aren't separate people or persons, but all in the one Jesus.

Fellowship eventually ceased, however, as the Church of God of Prophecy let go of holiness and separation. That’s my largest issue: they aren't separate anymore, they don't preach holiness.
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  #19  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:04 AM
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I met an Indian Brother who was Trinity Pentecostal in 1977. He had Church in his house. He was a serious man and we became good friends. He was from a world wide Church that started in Sri Lanka in the 1920's. He migrated from India to America. The Church now known as The Pentecostal Mission.

At that time he was 100% with this group and encouraged me to visit their main Church in Washington DC. I really was not expecting much but I was surprised! The group there was far more of a New Testament Church than any I had seen. I believe I saw more faith, love, and holiness among them than any group I have known.

There were many healings and cases of demons being cast out. Faith was preached as absolute for healing. Being treated by Doctors was considered a sin. They were very strong about the sermon on the mount. Their teaching on heart purity was excellent. The ministers there lived (and still do) communally.

To join the ministry one had to commit to two points other than their foundation doctrines.

You could never ask for money.

This really amazed me because I was used to seeing Pentecostal Preachers begging, pleading, and deceiving for offerings.

The other thing was you could never go to a Doctor or take any medicine.

My first impression of them was I thought I had found the true Church!

They prayed VERY fervently like I had never seen. People received the Holy Ghost regularly.

In those days I was just beginning to really search out the truth of Acts 2:38. I remained friends with this Pastor for several years before joining his group. During that time I got baptized in Jesus name at a Charismatic Church.

After that I became a member of this Pastors Church. He opposed my baptism strongly but still made me an Elder in the Church. I taught there every third Sunday for about a year.

Altho I loved this Pastor and his small house Church and really was glad to get to know the Ministers and people of the much larger group they were pre trib and Trinity and strong for women preachers. Their "standards" as to dress were the same as Apostolics except the women wore vails.

I loved the meekness and gentleness of many of the people there they seemed "Christlike".

Nonetheless in the end my desire for all I could get of Jesus and his truth led me to part ways with them.

Eventually I taught Jesus name baptism to the Church and was forced to leave.
My soon-to-be ex-stepfather's family are Pentecostal Holiness. They're Trinitarian, and most of them are hard against Jesus' name baptism and Oneness.

When my mother showed them the video of my baptism in Jesus' name on her phone, the mother said "Oh, they're those Pentecostals." What ever that meant, I'm still not entirely sure, but she seemed quite closed to idea of baptism performed any other way than in the titles. The father, on the other hand, whom was also the pastor of their church, seemed more opened but yet still unwilling to embrace it as Truth.

As for as holiness and separation, however, these people were very conservative. They have better expectations than a lot of Apostolic people I know.
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To be a Christian without prayer is no more possible to be alive without breathing.
(Martin Luther)
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  #20  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:20 AM
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Holy Roller Holy Roller is offline
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Re: Trinitarian Pentecostalism

I know a lot of Apostolic people get on the kick that Trinitarian Christians don't get the genuine Holy Ghost, but most likely just get tongues or, in worst cases, a counterfeit spirit. I'm sure some of them have a different spirit that isn't the Spirit of God, but I'm sure all of us here have stories, whether first hand or not, about people in churches we've been to or heard tell of that didn't have the real deal.

Some people want to justify their theory by saying that because they aren't in the fullness of the Truth (as we see it) that therefore they cannot possibly have the genuine Spirit of God. I can't entirely agree. Just because someone doesn't have the revelation or abide in the entirety of Biblical Truth, doesn't mean that the individual wasn't filled with the very Holy Ghost that Christ back as a comforter to His people.

When we say things like this, it seems very much like we're denying the very power of the God we serve. He doesn't hold his Spirit back from those that love Him, and yes, I've met Trinitarians that certainly love the Lord. Are they abiding in the fullness of Truth? Of course they aren't. But how many of us are? Just because someone doesn't see everything just as we doesn't mean that weren't blessed by the Lord to have what is real.

I don't get on that bandwagon.

Naturally, we all know that Jesus will eventually pull back His Spirit if we continue to override it. That's a given. He's not going to continuously abide in a vessel that isn't walking in obedience to His guidance. Now, the precise point where He draws back can certainly be debated.

The biggest thing most people want to harp on about tongue-talkers outside of the Apostolic arena is Oneness and Jesus' name baptism. I know of a preacher that pastors as self-titled community church (it was once affiliated with the Church of God, the Cleveland division) that willingly preaches Trinitarianism when he knows Oneness to be right out of fear that a large percentage of his congregation would reject it and therefore leave his church.

That baffles me. He knows better, but doesn't teach it. One of his sons saw Oneness, and denied ordination in the COG because they wanted him to deny Oneness.

I don't know where all this rant came from but I was sitting at work and this is what was jumbling through my head, and I wanted to get it out here.

I'll be done for now.
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