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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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Old 05-17-2007, 08:49 AM
PaPaDon
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End-Time Prophecy Errors

Greetings!

The following represents my initial post regarding this topic, and I choose to address specifically the errors found within the things presently being publicly broadcast as truth concerning the "timing" of the future fulfillment of our Lord's promise to "...come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:1-3), or what is commonly referred to as the rapture of the church. The problem we must confront is that of finding a sound, biblical-based answer to which of the most common teachings concerning this future event is biblically sound, which are not, or perhaps whether all of them contain sufficient "leaven" (that is to say, erroneous elements) to render them void. It is my learned, and irrevocable opinion that the latter is the case, therefore I ask that I be allowed to set forth the underlying reason in support of this position.

First, I should like to say that I believe every error that is present within the things that are embraced and aired as truth today regarding those events which are to precede and surround our Lord's physical return and the gathering of His chosen people into His presence upon the clouds of heaven at the end of the present age, can be traced to an absence of understanding these three (3) things:

1. The significance of God's exercise of "righteousness" in His relationship with each entity of His creation, whether they be human or angelic.

2. The creation of mankind.

3. That element of the judgment of death which God imposed upon the substantive flesh of all mankind, which necesssitated, yea, demanded that He also inhabit a human body, and undergo the experience of its death, so that the plan of redemption which He had devised for the eternal invisible soul of man might be effectuated.

Now that is "saying quite a mouth full," as the old saying goes, but I beg that I be allowed to address each of these things in the order that I have them listed.

In the words of Psalm 89:14, as well as 97:2, we are told that God has established that the guiding principles inherent within "righteousness," would be that which not only forms the very foundation upon which His entire kingdom would be built, but that it would be this solitary principle which would dictate His every action. At its essence we discover that righteousness simply means impartial treatment, or equality of justice. This is why we find it stated so many time throughout the Bible that God is NOT a respector of persons. In fact, the guiding principles inherent within the law of righteousness not only prohibits God from displaying partiality, but it also dictates that He must perform, EVERY action according to the rule of equality!

For openers, lets examine what was perhaps the very first instance of God's application of this guiding principle in His relationship with creation. In Isaiah 45:7, as well as Amos 3:6, we find it written that God "created evil." Yes, I know that not many want to consider this, yet it is true. But the question must not be whether or not God did, in fact, create evil, rather it must be that we determine the underlying reason why. The answer can be found within His purpose for doing so. We find this by considering the fact that God, even from the beginning of creation, elected to subject EVERY entity which He created, to a test, or trial of their willingness to allow Him to exercise rulership over them. When the angelic beings were subjected to this 'test of loyalty to God, we find that Lucifier and approximately one third of the angels partook of evil, which led to their rebellion against God. This fateful decision resulted in them be sentenced to eternal punishment in a lake of fire and brimstone.

When God created the eternal invisible soul of man in his image, and then formed a physical body of human flesh from the dust of the ground as a visible, perpetual place of abode for man, and then placed him in the pristine confines of the garden at Eden, God's own established guiding principle of righteousness DEMANDED that He also subject mankind to a trial/test of his loyalty unto Him. This was accomplished when God created, and then placed the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" in the garden, and forbid Adam (& Eve) from partaking of its fruits to satisfy the normal desire of their substantive bodies for the fruit of the ground from whence it came. And, when man willingly disobeyed this prohibition, then righteousness REQUIRED that God also impose the penalty of eternal punishment in a lake of fire upon him for such disobedience - the very SAME penalty which He had imposed upon the rebellious angelic beings for their willful disobedience.

This was not the end of the matter, however, because man, never having experienced the indescribable utopian state of heaven as the angelic beings had enjoyed since their creation, then righteousness DEMANDED that God devise, and implement, the means whereby rebellious mankind might also partake of this utopian locale called heaven. Thus we find that together with God's imposition of the penalty of death upon the physical body of man as a result of his disobedience, God also included the promise of providing man with a way in which he could also enjoy the beauty and luxury of His eternal kingdom. (see Genesis 3:15 & 19)

It is my prayerful hope that this explanation of the manner in which the "righteousness of God" operates, will be helpful in enabling others to acquire a better understanding of the variety of errors which dominate the various carnal-minded schemes and scenarios that have been devised concerning the coming glorious appearance of the Lord in all of His wondrous splendor and glory.

In my next post on this matter I shall attempt to address, at length, the various esoteric issues involved within God's creation of mankind.

May the peace of God be with everyone!
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:51 AM
PaPaDon
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I might also add to the topic of God's "righteousness," this significant item:

A careful study of the events which transpired during the Azusa Street revival of the early part of the last century, will reveal that many "messages in tongues" with their accompanying "interpretations" were realized. One which stands out as relevant to the perilous times in which we presently live, concerned the matter of "righteousness." And although I do not have the exact quote of this particular message at hand, please allow me to paraphrase it as follows: "In the closing days of the present age, more emphasis will be placed upon worship than upon righteousness."

Most assuredly, we today are witness to the fulfilling of this prophetic utterance from God. Where, might I ask, is "righteousness" found within the things being publicly broadcast, as if it were sound biblical-based truth, by the proponents of any of the teachings regarding eschatology (be they pre, mid, or post-tribulationists, or some other form of rapturism)? I find that this essential element is not being considered within any of the things being published today concerning the end-time prophecies of the Bible! Allow me to cite one such example:

It is widely taught (as if it were a sound biblical truth) that when the moment arrives that God will fulfill His promise to return in physical form and gather all of His saints into His presence upon the clouds of heaven, that the participants in this event will include not only the resurrected righteous whose eternal invisible souls presently prevail in a temporary suspended state of existence in earthern graves, but also those saints who will be living when this event takes place. Such statements are not only blatantly false, but represent a clear violation of the righteousness of God! How could it possibly be true that God requires that some of His chosen people undergo the experience of death, yet grant an exemption from mthe experience of death unto others? Would not such an act depict unrighteousness on His part? The answer, of course, is a resounding yes! Therefore this erroneous and highly misleading allegation, which is an essential element embraced and aired as truth by the proponents of each of the 3 major theories of present-day end-time prophetic teachings, MUST be discarded! Have we not been notified that it only takes a minute degree of error to corrupt, and thereby render void, and entire doctrinal teaching? (see I Corinthians 5:6 and Galatians 5:9)

I encourage all who occasion to read the things I have taken the time to write concerning these matters, to keep these things at the forefront of their thoughts as I continue my discourse about these important matters.

Regards,
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:36 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPaDon View Post
I might also add to the topic of God's "righteousness," this significant item:

A careful study of the events which transpired during the Azusa Street revival of the early part of the last century, will reveal that many "messages in tongues" with their accompanying "interpretations" were realized. One which stands out as relevant to the perilous times in which we presently live, concerned the matter of "righteousness." And although I do not have the exact quote of this particular message at hand, please allow me to paraphrase it as follows: "In the closing days of the present age, more emphasis will be placed upon worship than upon righteousness."

Most assuredly, we today are witness to the fulfilling of this prophetic utterance from God. Where, might I ask, is "righteousness" found within the things being publicly broadcast, as if it were sound biblical-based truth, by the proponents of any of the teachings regarding eschatology (be they pre, mid, or post-tribulationists, or some other form of rapturism)? I find that this essential element is not being considered within any of the things being published today concerning the end-time prophecies of the Bible! Allow me to cite one such example:

It is widely taught (as if it were a sound biblical truth) that when the moment arrives that God will fulfill His promise to return in physical form and gather all of His saints into His presence upon the clouds of heaven, that the participants in this event will include not only the resurrected righteous whose eternal invisible souls presently prevail in a temporary suspended state of existence in earthern graves, but also those saints who will be living when this event takes place. Such statements are not only blatantly false, but represent a clear violation of the righteousness of God! How could it possibly be true that God requires that some of His chosen people undergo the experience of death, yet grant an exemption from mthe experience of death unto others? Would not such an act depict unrighteousness on His part? The answer, of course, is a resounding yes! Therefore this erroneous and highly misleading allegation, which is an essential element embraced and aired as truth by the proponents of each of the 3 major theories of present-day end-time prophetic teachings, MUST be discarded! Have we not been notified that it only takes a minute degree of error to corrupt, and thereby render void, and entire doctrinal teaching? (see I Corinthians 5:6 and Galatians 5:9)

I encourage all who occasion to read the things I have taken the time to write concerning these matters, to keep these things at the forefront of their thoughts as I continue my discourse about these important matters.

Regards,
Well Paul is the one who said those who are alive when Jesus comes will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess. 4:16-18

I will not be "discarding" my belief in it.
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Old 05-18-2007, 04:28 AM
Iron_Bladder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Well Paul is the one who said those who are alive when Jesus comes will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thess. 4:16-18

I will not be "discarding" my belief in it.


OK I can see your point Michael, however I'da dd to this that Christ meets us up in the air at the last day and at the last hour. John 11:24 and 12:48 come to mind re the word 'last day' as well as John 5:28 which mentions the word 'day.' So i'd place the rapture at the return of Christ at the last day and on the last hour. Thanks
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