Can A Spirit-Filled Believer Have A Demon?

[Esther]

The Word says bitter and sweet can not come out of the same fountain .

[Esther]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Brother Mike, I'm not saying anything! I quoted the scriptures that says it all! Paul said it plainly himself, 'there was given me a thorn IN the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me'.

I do believe what the scriptures say and I do believe that Paul knew what he received in his flesh because he asked the Lord THREE TIMES to take it away from him!

Some believe that he had a physical health issue. No way did he have a demon. They would have run for cover, just as the one that followed him around found out, and then they wanted his head for taking away their income the woman had provided.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Esther

Some believe that he had a physical health issue. No way did he have a demon. They would have run for cover, just as the one that followed him around found out, and then they wanted his head for taking away their income the woman had provided.

So you don't believe the testimony of Paul recorded in 2nd Corinthians 12:7?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esther

Some believe that he had a physical health issue. No way did he have a demon. They would have run for cover, just as the one that followed him around found out, and then they wanted his head for taking away their income the woman had provided.

I agree. I've read a few commentaries which speak of Paul having an infirmity and this verse was referring to that.

[Carl]

Possibly he was talking about persecution. As well as resistance to his message and ministry both in and out of the church.

[votivesoul]

The thorn in the flesh, was first, an idiomatic expression.

However, the thorn, as I see it, relates back to "the buffeting", and not to the agent of the the buffeting (i.e. the messenger of Satan).

Also note that this infirmity was ordained by the Lord in order to keep Paul humble. If Paul was as literally demonized as has been suggested, we then have a case of Christ intentionally using the devil to afflict one of His own.

But we are taught differently. We are taught that the Son of God was manifest to destroy the works of the devil.

Furthermore, Paul's calling by Christ, was in part, to turn people away from Satan unto the Living God. Paul was shown how many things he must suffer for the Lord's sake. But that suffering was the Lord's will on account of the calling: i.e. an apostle, who God has ordained to be last (e.g. offscouring of the world, and etc.).

So, if we want an example of someone physically afflicted by a demon to the point of fleshly malaise, we would do better to look at the woman, the "daughter of Abraham", bound by Satan for 18 years, who was healed by the Lord in the Gospel of Luke.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The thorn in the flesh, was first, an idiomatic expression.

Also note that this infirmity was ordained by the Lord in order to keep Paul humble. If Paul was as literally demonized as has been suggested, we then have a case of Christ intentionally using the devil to afflict one of His own.

Where does the scripture say that 'the thorn in Paul's flesh was an idiomatic expression'?

I'm sure you know the story of Job right? Didn't God allow Satan to afflict a righteous man?

And didn't God send a 'lying spirit' into the mouths of the false prophets of Ahab? 1st Kings 22:20-23

How about King Saul?

And have you read the scriptures where Paul gave over some brothers to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and to be taught not to blaspheme?

1st Timothy 1:19-20

"having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

1st Corinthians 5:3-5

"For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

The Lord said truly "My people perish for lack of knowledge".

[shazeep]

you might disinherit the notion of demon possession a la The Exorcist, possibly, for a better definition of "possession."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esther

Some believe that he had a physical health issue. No way did he have a demon. They would have run for cover, just as the one that followed him around found out, and then they wanted his head for taking away their income the woman had provided.

Some have said it was relating to a physical health issue, yet the Bible never uses the thorn in the flesh as relating to sickness.

Note Number 33:55 - Moses speaking - "But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell."

The Canaanites were going to be the "thorns" in Israel's sides if they didn't drive them out.

Note Joshua 23:13 - "Know for a certainty that the Lord your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you."

Again, the troubling Canaanites are the "scourge" and the "thorns" to Israel.

Note 2 Samuel 23:6 - "6 But the sons of Belial shall be all of them as thorns thrust away, because they cannot be taken with hands:"

All of these references are relating to personalities and not sickness.

So, Paul is in effect saying that the "thorn" is an angel of Satan. He also explains what the angel came to do - "buffet" him.

Ananias was told by God in reference to Paul - "I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake." It wasn't by sickness, but by persecution. He had been persecuted from place to place - that was the "thorn". Who wouldn't want some relief from that?

"Yea, and all that live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

I Cor 4:11 "Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place."

If healing was part of his ministry, why would he remain sick? And who would have confidence that he could heal?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

Where does the scripture say that 'the thorn in Paul's flesh was an idiomatic expression'?

I'm sure you know the story of Job right? Didn't God allow Satan to afflict a righteous man?

And didn't God send a 'lying spirit' into the mouths of the false prophets of Ahab? 1st Kings 22:20-23

How about King Saul?

And have you read the scriptures where Paul gave over some brothers to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and to be taught not to blaspheme?

1st Timothy 1:19-20

"having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

1st Corinthians 5:3-5

"For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

The Lord said truly "My people perish for lack of knowledge".

I agree that as a christian we can be attacked by the devil or a demon but not that we can be possessed by a demon or devil. Possession implies control and we cannot be controled by the devil and by God at the same time.