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  #1  
Old 05-30-2013, 06:32 PM
LifeUncommon LifeUncommon is offline
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Healing?

I am hearing pastors say now that Christians shouldn't suffer illness/pain. The reasoning is that in Heaven, there will be no illness or suffering, we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.

They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical? I believe The Lord can heal, but he obviously doesn't always. And we are promised short lives full of trouble, and that we will die. How can we reconcile this while thinking we should never be sick?

My false prophet red flags are going up.

Is there something I'm missing scripturally that makes this kind if teaching right?
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:37 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Healing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeUncommon View Post
I am hearing pastors say now that Christians shouldn't suffer illness/pain. The reasoning is that in Heaven, there will be no illness or suffering, we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.

They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical? I believe The Lord can heal, but he obviously doesn't always. And we are promised short lives full of trouble, and that we will die. How can we reconcile this while thinking we should never be sick?

My false prophet red flags are going up.

Is there something I'm missing scripturally that makes this kind if teaching right?
I believe that we have healing available to us through Christ, but as you pointed out, it doesn't always happen. My first reaction to sickness is prayer and confession. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Last week it worked for a very very serious, life threatening problem and I'm thankful for that.

It's up to each individual how they wish to confront illness and disease though.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2013, 12:32 AM
larrylyates larrylyates is offline
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Re: Healing?

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
I believe that we have healing available to us through Christ, but as you pointed out, it doesn't always happen. My first reaction to sickness is prayer and confession. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Last week it worked for a very very serious, life threatening problem and I'm thankful for that.

It's up to each individual how they wish to confront illness and disease though.
seekerman you bring out several important things in your post. First, the Bible clearly teaches that healing is "In the Atonement." So, as you pointed out, healing is definitely available to us through Christ.

I would go further and say that it is available to us on the same basis as forgiveness of sins. (Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; I Peter 2:24)

For you to reach first for prayer and confession is excellent. I am a Retired RN. I was also privileged to have spent about a year working closely with Oral Roberts. He believed strongly in merging the two streams of healing and medicine. All of my "heroes of the faith," on the other hand, taught against doctors and Medicine. They saw incredible results. We want to see those kind of results again.

"we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.
They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical?"


I would answer a resounding YES! The "failures" are on our part as ministers of the Gospel. We have been teaching unbelief for years and so we get what we preach. Turning that ship takes a long time and lots of distance.

I believe as we continue to teach a bold, positive and proactive faith. We will begin to see more and more the kind of results seekerman saw last week. We are seeing incredible results in our own group. We send out teams who go door to door in their own neighborhoods with the message of healing and deliverance. The results are humbling. God still heals!

seekerman, I sincerely pray that last weeks encounter was not your own health?! If so we are praying anyway for that situation in general.

Last edited by larrylyates; 05-31-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2013, 04:38 AM
LifeUncommon LifeUncommon is offline
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Re: Healing?

So, since you both say this is biblically accurate, that Christians will be healed if all their illnesses and should not be sick in this side of heaven, can you please reference scripture that says that? I'm having trouble finding such.
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2013, 06:39 AM
n david n david is offline
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Sounds a bit like the prosperity doctrine mess.
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2013, 07:08 AM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Healing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates View Post
seekerman you bring out several important things in your post. First, the Bible clearly teaches that healing is "In the Atonement." So, as you pointed out, healing is definitely available to us through Christ.

I would go further and say that it is available to us on the same basis as forgiveness of sins. (Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:17; I Peter 2:24)

For you to reach first for prayer and confession is excellent. I am a Retired RN. I was also privileged to have spent about a year working closely with Oral Roberts. He believed strongly in merging the two streams of healing and medicine. All of my "heroes of the faith," on the other hand, taught against doctors and Medicine. They saw incredible results. We want to see those kind of results again.

"we have God's power in us and we are supposed to be building God's kingdom, so that means that we shouldn't accept sickness here in earth.
They say we should tell the devil he is trespassing, remind him that by Jesus's stripes we are healed and claim our healing.

But is this Biblical?"


I would answer a resounding YES! The "failures" are on our part as ministers of the Gospel. We have been teaching unbelief for years and so we get what we preach. Turning that ship takes a long time and lots of distance.

I believe as we continue to teach a bold, positive and proactive faith. We will begin to see more and more the kind of results seekerman saw last week. We are seeing incredible results in our own group. We send out teams who go door to door in their own neighborhoods with the message of healing and deliverance. The results are humbling. God still heals!

seekerman, I sincerely pray that last weeks encounter was not your own health?! If so we are praying anyway for that situation in general.
UH-OH... Larry, I like you... a lot. I was kind of hoping we would not wind up wrangling with this one... but here goes... Can you sincerely say that in your 20 something years of nursing that you never saw someone with firm faith for their healing progress in their disease and die?

I have seen a woman on a vent with tumor and fluid filling her lungs, with cancer eating up all her organs, writing notes to her family telling them not to give up hope because the Lord had promised her her healing... right up until hours before she died.... and others like her. This breaks my heart as we are doing nothing to help people like this understand or prepare for death.

Everyone will die, illness is a part of that... I think that teaching that illness, or the failure to receive a supernatural healing from illness, is the result of a lack of faith is a very cruel teaching.

In all controlled studies to date, faith often does give one an edge in recovery from serious illness... but ALL faiths are equal in their ability to give that advantage... Every story I've heard otherwise was strictly anecdotal.

Last edited by Titus2woman; 05-31-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:50 AM
larrylyates larrylyates is offline
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Re: Healing?

If I can keep it straight I will try and answer you both. n David I do not accept the "name it and claim it" doctrine. Which brings me to the next point which is also directed to your question.

I have seen failure after failure for which I have nothing but sadness. What we do and teach is different from the typical way of praying for the sick. I won't go into detail, but that is simply not biblical. Now I realize I am opening the proverbial can of worms here, but you can go through every incident of healing in the Bible and never find a single example of the traditional practice of interceding for healing.

Jesus commanded illness and demons as if talking to any normal person. He spoke to illness and it left. We do the same based on the promise that believers will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. Why do we fail more often than we succeed? I have no clue. Well, I do actually have a theory but that's all it is. I believe we have deep s eated and ingrained unbelief that we are not even aware of. It shows up in the way we pray and our songs, it's from centuries of belief that healing had passed away. Many still wonder at some level if that may be true.

Ok, I went into more detail than I intended. Bottom line is we simply take the promises and principles in scripture and act on them. It works so much better. The only time Jesus ever rebuked anyone for lack of faith was when He addressed the disciples over their failure to cast out the demon. We accept that as placing the burden fully on the one ministering healing.

Have to quit here. Errands to run. But seriously guys, there is no need to "wrangle" here. We're just sharing ideas and experience. We ca disagree without being disagreeable. I contend that only when we return to New Testament patterns, principles and priorities, will we begin to see New Testament results. Talk more later.
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:25 AM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Healing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrylyates View Post
If I can keep it straight I will try and answer you both. n David I do not accept the "name it and claim it" doctrine. Which brings me to the next point which is also directed to your question.

I have seen failure after failure for which I have nothing but sadness. What we do and teach is different from the typical way of praying for the sick. I won't go into detail, but that is simply not biblical. Now I realize I am opening the proverbial can of worms here, but you can go through every incident of healing in the Bible and never find a single example of the traditional practice of interceding for healing.

Jesus commanded illness and demons as if talking to any normal person. He spoke to illness and it left. We do the same based on the promise that believers will lay hands on the sick and they will recover. Why do we fail more often than we succeed? I have no clue. Well, I do actually have a theory but that's all it is. I believe we have deep s eated and ingrained unbelief that we are not even aware of. It shows up in the way we pray and our songs, it's from centuries of belief that healing had passed away. Many still wonder at some level if that may be true.

Ok, I went into more detail than I intended. Bottom line is we simply take the promises and principles in scripture and act on them. It works so much better. The only time Jesus ever rebuked anyone for lack of faith was when He addressed the disciples over their failure to cast out the demon. We accept that as placing the burden fully on the one ministering healing.

Have to quit here. Errands to run. But seriously guys, there is no need to "wrangle" here. We're just sharing ideas and experience. We ca disagree without being disagreeable. I contend that only when we return to New Testament patterns, principles and priorities, will we begin to see New Testament results. Talk more later.
Maybe 'wrangling' was not the word I wanted. While I sincerely hope that there is something to your ideas I still believe and teach others that death is a part of life, perhaps the greatest part, as it is the end of this race. As such it can be seen as a victory of it's own, without dread, as it moves us one step closer to being with God. There is a way to die a good death, as much as possible, but it takes some preperation for most people... Something they are not getting help with, if we never admit, until they are unconcious and gasping, that they are indeed going to die.
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2013, 08:36 AM
LifeUncommon LifeUncommon is offline
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Re: Healing?

Love hearing opinions, but scriptural backing is what I'm most interested in, if anyone can provide it, as I have been unsuccessful reconciling this on my own.
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2013, 08:55 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Healing?

Is healing promised? Perhaps with some requirements and instructions on how to achieve it? Does it always happen? No.

Is salvation promised? Perhaps with some requirements and instructions on how to achieve it? Does it always happen? You don't know, and won't know until you die.

Just sayin'.
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