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  #91  
Old 12-15-2013, 06:34 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Most people interpret scripture bases on personal preference. When I stopped trying looking at the Bible as an UPCI apologist and began to look at the Bible as a search for truth and accept the evidence presented, I found very little matches in line with the Bible. There isn't much objective truth in the UPCI. It's agenda driven.
And yours isn't agenda driven?
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #92  
Old 12-15-2013, 06:43 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Most people interpret scripture bases on personal preference. When I stopped trying looking at the Bible as an UPCI apologist and began to look at the Bible as a search for truth and accept the evidence presented, I found very little matches in line with the Bible. There isn't much objective truth in the UPCI. It's agenda driven.
It is quite clear that you are driving an agenda yourself.

I may not be UPCI, but I do consider them my brethren in the faith, so at the risk of being called a UPCI apologist, I will say that I do find much objective truth in the UPCI, of course mixed with some stuff that is not biblical, that is why I am not a UPCI member, for I do not agree with how they have added some non-biblical standards to the faith.
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  #93  
Old 12-15-2013, 08:28 PM
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Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Most people interpret scripture bases on personal preference. When I stopped trying looking at the Bible as an UPCI apologist and began to look at the Bible as a search for truth and accept the evidence presented, I found very little matches in line with the Bible. There isn't much objective truth in the UPCI. It's agenda driven.
Exactly! When I stopped reading scripture to see what I was told was there by those in church leadership, and just read them as written, in context, it was quite an eye opening experience.
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  #94  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:06 PM
Sasha Sasha is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Exactly! When I stopped reading scripture to see what I was told was there by those in church leadership, and just read them as written, in context, it was quite an eye opening experience.
I was so convinced by what I'd been taught that even still in my memory lies the verse I read that says women cannot cut their hair. I looked for that verse for two years to prove Billy Jones wrong! LOL!

Seriously though, I remember reading verses that I can no longer find. It was engrained in me that hard that I used to tell people it was there cause I read it!!
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  #95  
Old 12-16-2013, 09:08 AM
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Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Exactly! When I stopped reading scripture to see what I was told was there by those in church leadership, and just read them as written, in context, it was quite an eye opening experience.
The only change is that NOW, you are looking at the "context" through your husband's ideology. Point in case:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy View Post
Now, at the same time, my dear husband was taking another look at these very same things and very exuberantly discussing them with me.
So, really, Sasha's questions remain:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha View Post

Do you really know what you believe? Do any of us?

Do we really believe what we say we believe?
I only believe what I believe. I think everyone has that testimony or answer.
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  #96  
Old 12-16-2013, 09:31 AM
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ILG ILG is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
The only change is that NOW, you are looking at the "context" through your husband's ideology.
Well, that's how it started for her anyway. I noticed that too, but maybe she is getting to the point in the story where she has her own thoughts on it and it will be in the next installment.
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  #97  
Old 12-16-2013, 11:54 AM
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tv1a tv1a is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

The mothership doesn't need my help to self destruct. Everything in the UPCI is seen thru a prism of legalism including the views of the Godhead and salvation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
It is quite clear that you are driving an agenda yourself.

I may not be UPCI, but I do consider them my brethren in the faith, so at the risk of being called a UPCI apologist, I will say that I do find much objective truth in the UPCI, of course mixed with some stuff that is not biblical, that is why I am not a UPCI member, for I do not agree with how they have added some non-biblical standards to the faith.
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Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #98  
Old 12-16-2013, 12:01 PM
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tv1a tv1a is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Prax you should know better. Trinitarians have a difficult time separating oneness views from legalistic aspects many oneness apologists embrace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
It's Politics. Please don't broad brush all Oneness. The fact is more and more OP churchs in the UPC WOULD invite some to speak but the UPCI passed stupid rules to block such things without "special permission".

And I do believe your numbers are subjective (and biased). In MY experience for every John Doe and John Smith that believe Oneness are saved there are Hundreds of Trinitarians that do not.

The Majority I have encountered say OPs are lost, not Christians, cult, heretics and will burn in hell. I even had one once tell me he wished we were still in John Calvin's day so he can watch me burn alive at the stake. This is a nearly 2000 year attitude beginning with Nicea.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #99  
Old 12-16-2013, 04:40 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
Amen. Begs the Q, "Do you then preach what you believe, and they do not believe?"
Yes and so far I have only been griped at by those who heard what i supposedly said from a second hand source.
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  #100  
Old 12-16-2013, 04:57 PM
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Roxanne Murphy Roxanne Murphy is offline
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Re: Back with some new perspective

Actually, after I got past the "I don't want to talk about this" place with my husband, I decided that I needed to go back and look at those little scripture sets (1 Timothy 2:9-10, 1 Peter 3:3-6) in their full context. When I used my handy little Strong's Concordance app to get the original Greek word for woman/women, and it says this: "a woman, specifically, a wife". Then, I looked at the entire chapter and noticed that both of these texts are small parts of a bigger discussion in the context of the marriage relationship. It truly was like a light bulb came on. These verses aren't written for the pastor/bishop/elder to use to create dress codes and call them holiness. These are written to benefit the husband-wife relationship.
I have thus far come to the realization that I cannot judge a lady to be 'holy' by whether or not she is wearing jewelry. That is a preconditioned response that is difficult to reprogram, but I am working on it.
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