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  #31  
Old 10-18-2017, 09:54 AM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by TakingDominion View Post
You need a preacher in your life. I need a preacher in my life. If you have no pastor, ask yourself; what is my reason for not having one? Are you unwilling to submit to another man? Are you above pastoral authority? Do you know more bible than the pastor in town?

Who was John referring to in Revelations when he said "and to the angel of the church in..."
dude did you even read what was posted? where did I ever say I didnt need a pastor in my life or was unwilling to submit to one?

see, thats what Im talking about when people avoid whats said and start making untrue assumtions about the motivations of the poster.

since when has knowing more Bible than the other guy been the reason for being in charge? yeah I probably do know SOME things that he doesn't because I do a lot of reading and study and he has come to me with questions but Ive never seen myself as above him or superior.

He is my fellow laborer and my brother in the Lord.

I have two kidneys...I need two kidneys but I can live with just one.

What Im saying is that not having a pastor doesnt automatically mean you are hell bound and using the examples I used I laid out a good argument.

Using that simple argument you cannot truthfully preach that you CANNOT be saved without a pastor.

But you have gone and wrongfully assumed some sort of refusal to submit or rebellion on the part of the unpastored which reveals your predjudice and your heart in the matter.
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  #32  
Old 10-18-2017, 03:00 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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True that. I've also seen men for whom money was not an issue. It was a deep lust for power and control.
That'll preach.

I knew one personally. He couldn't care less if a he got a dime from the congregation. He just loved breaking heads, and controlling lives. But he is just one guy. I have know and have known great brothers, and sisters who were suffering servants (emphasis on suffering) who did it with praise on their lips. He would give you their own eyes if you needed them. Men and women who I am honored to call my brothers whether they have blessing for me, or stern correction.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2017, 03:53 PM
derAlte derAlte is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
That'll preach.

I knew one personally. He couldn't care less if a he got a dime from the congregation. He just loved breaking heads, and controlling lives. But he is just one guy. I have know and have known great brothers, and sisters who were suffering servants (emphasis on suffering) who did it with praise on their lips. He would give you their own eyes if you needed them. Men and women who I am honored to call my brothers whether they have blessing for me, or stern correction.
I have known some too. It is a privilege to be around people like that out of whom the pure nature of Jesus Christ is manifest. I don't think they somehow avoided the unavoidable offenses that come from interaction with the carnal but they learned how not to become bitter and guarded and to use their offense temptation as an excuse to throw out the baby of holiness with the bathwater of anger at how they were treated.
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  #34  
Old 10-18-2017, 08:17 PM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

I think an examination of the terms "saved" and "lost" are important before determining what one has to do to be either.
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  #35  
Old 10-18-2017, 09:18 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by derAlte View Post
I have known some too. It is a privilege to be around people like that out of whom the pure nature of Jesus Christ is manifest. I don't think they somehow avoided the unavoidable offenses that come from interaction with the carnal but they learned how not to become bitter and guarded and to use their offense temptation as an excuse to throw out the baby of holiness with the bathwater of anger at how they were treated.
Awesome reply.
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  #36  
Old 10-18-2017, 10:54 PM
TakingDominion TakingDominion is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by jediwill83 View Post
dude did you even read what was posted? where did I ever say I didnt need a pastor in my life or was unwilling to submit to one?

see, thats what Im talking about when people avoid whats said and start making untrue assumtions about the motivations of the poster.

since when has knowing more Bible than the other guy been the reason for being in charge? yeah I probably do know SOME things that he doesn't because I do a lot of reading and study and he has come to me with questions but Ive never seen myself as above him or superior.

He is my fellow laborer and my brother in the Lord.

I have two kidneys...I need two kidneys but I can live with just one.

What Im saying is that not having a pastor doesnt automatically mean you are hell bound and using the examples I used I laid out a good argument.

Using that simple argument you cannot truthfully preach that you CANNOT be saved without a pastor.

But you have gone and wrongfully assumed some sort of refusal to submit or rebellion on the part of the unpastored which reveals your predjudice and your heart in the matter.
Dude... I did read What was posted. Every word including the part where you said you have a pastor, so obviously I wasn't accusing you of anything when I made my comments given the fact that you already made it clear that you have a pastor.

In fact, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm simply stating what I believe. That is, i believe that I need a pastor in my life. I also believe most folks who would refuse to call someone their pastor (or elder or whatever term you might use) do so because of the wrong reasons such as bitterness or discontent.

I never said you can't be saved without a pastor. I'm asking, why would you not want a Pastor/elder/leader in your life? And when I say pastor, I'm NOT referring to the power hungry or greedy men others have brought up. Those kind of men are NOT pastors. I'm referring to a pastor in the mold of Jeremiah 3:15.

I'm not sure how this reveals a prejudice on my part, but I do agree this is my heart on the matter.
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  #37  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:14 PM
TakingDominion TakingDominion is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

Acts 20:28
Hebrews 13:17
James 3:1
Jeremiah 3:15
Ephesians 4:11-12
1 Peter 5:1-4
Titus 1:5-9
1 Timothy 3:1-13

These scripture references all have something in common. They all speak of an elder/pastor/overseer and it's clear that every new testament church had at least one overseer appointed in each city.

Again, I never said you can't be saved without a pastor. But I am saying I don't think it's a great idea.

#beApostolic
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  #38  
Old 10-19-2017, 06:53 AM
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Godsdrummer Godsdrummer is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
I imagine each of us will give an account for our soul.

Teachers and shepherds must give an account for others because they are responsible for teaching and guiding those others. So when they admonish you, you are supposed to consider it as coming from someone who will give account to God for how much Bible Truth and godly wisdom they imparted to you (or failed to).

A person who is a Christian is a part of a community (the church), and that community has (or is supposed to have) elders, shepherds, those who serve as examples to everyone else.

America is so infatuated with individualism that people think joining a church is an optional thing that occurs after you get "saved". When the truth is salvation means being added by the Lord to the church. There's a lot of people who want to be BOSS of their life, and can't stomache the idea of submitting to others. And some of those ego driven people happen to be preachers, who demand others submit to their authority, and want to make sure everyone they meet gets under their thumb. Why? Cause muh tithe monies.

Consider yourself blessed if you have elders in your life who actually SERVE as servants to the Body. There's too many extremes out there, going both directions. Remember, every bowling lane has TWO gutters...
Now that will preach, could not have said it better. We all have authority figures in life, that does not mean we are save or not. Bye being rebellious to authority if they are right will land us in hell. But the bible says we are to search out our own salvation.
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:13 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
Now that will preach, could not have said it better. We all have authority figures in life, that does not mean we are save or not. Bye being rebellious to authority if they are right will land us in hell. But the bible says we are to search out our own salvation.
Amen, and also being sure when you follow, follow as they follow Christ.
If the blind lead the blind both fall into a ditch.
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  #40  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:56 AM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Cant be saved without a pastor

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
I had a pastor who would sometimes get off his notes and tell us that he is against an elder/board run church because they would want to tell him what to preach and tie the money to his submission. Not in those words, but that is the message that was conveyed. LOL!
I have heard this over the pulpit a lot.
From some great men.
And there is a grain of truth in that many churches run by boards, have ran off pastors.
I have seen many more bad boards, (in churches run by them), than I have seen bad pastors, (in churches run by them).
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