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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #71  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:29 AM
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Epley is stuck on the Eternal Sonship issue ...
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  #72  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Daniel have you read my post??????????? You knwo perfectly well I believe Jesus is GOD he is BOTH Father and Son.
no text for this eply!

Question why didnt JESUS correct Peter here?

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
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  #73  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Epley is stuck on the Eternal Sonship issue ...
he does not even know what it is
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  #74  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Daniel have you read my post??????????? You knwo perfectly well I believe Jesus is GOD he is BOTH Father and Son.
but you said that the Son is not God ... Elder
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  #75  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:33 AM
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Herein .... lies my own dilemma with this discussion .... Both Oneness and Trinitarian zealots love to take pride in being right ... this what I know

Both believe in One God
Trinity and Oneness are non-biblical terms
There are clear distinctions in God

I chuckle at this debate ...

both have problems in explaining God's plan in revealing himself
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  #76  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
no Paul said GOD sent HIS SON and HE the SON was made of a woman...

explain further the love between certain elements -distinctions or persons of the trinity

Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and he will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again

this shows more then mere modalism

there are eternal distinctions as well

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

compare those to CHRISTS words
Jesus actually CAME FROM THE FATHER AND WAS IN THE FATHER
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
I appreciate being able to answer these simple and uncomplicated questions.
1. The Eternal Spirit which is God most certainly did love the Son Mary's son and did send him. Nothing hard about that. But your problem is where the Son declares the Father is GREATER than he. That the SON has NOT life within himself. That ALL works are done by the Father NOT the SON! That the Son had a beginning and will have an ending!!! Sir that is your problem.
2. The Word was WITH God certainly he was the plan-purpose-thought of God from all eternity not WITH Him as an separate person. The term logos means thought thus it could read:
In the Beginning was the Thought the Thought was with the Thinker and the Thought was the Thinker."
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  #77  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:36 AM
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More unexplainable eternal distinctions of GOD the Son

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 17:5 -
And now — in return.
glorify thou me — The “I Thee” and “Thou Me” are so placed in the original, each beside its fellow, as to show that A PERFECT RECIPROCITY OF SERVICES of the Son to the Father first, and then of the Father to the Son in return, is what our Lord means here to express.
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was — when “in the beginning the Word was with God” (Joh_1:1), “the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father” (Joh_1:18). With this pre-existent glory, which He veiled on earth, He asks to be reinvested, the design of the veiling being accomplished - not, however, simply as before, but now in our nature.

A Commentary on the Old and New Testaments by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown





Joh 17:5 -
Before the world was - That is, from eternity, before there was any creation - so the phrase, and others similar to it, are taken in the sacred writings; see Joh_17:24; Psa_90:2; Eph_1:4. See Joh_1:1. Let the glory of my eternal divinity surround and penetrate my humanity, in its resurrection, ascension, and in the place which it is to occupy at thy right hand, far above all creatures, Phi_2:6, Phi_2:9.
Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832)
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  #78  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
steve, thank you for saying more words so that I can understand the light you stand in.

I am confident you are betting the farm on the fact that your father which is in heaven, dwells in you.
I am also confident, your are striving that when people see you, they have seen your heavenly father that dwells in you.

Your temporal father in the realm of time is human and not a Spirit. As such, he CAN NOT dwell in you. God on the otherhand, is a Spirit.

Thank you for sharing with me how ignorant I am concerning what oneness folks believe. I feel much better knowing I will not dissapoint you in this area.
I nor YOU are NOT the Fulness of the Godhead BODILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I nor YOU can say if folks see us they see the Father!!!!!!!
Sir neither you nor I are GOD!
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  #79  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sola gratia View Post
we say JESUS said he was the Father - he never said that - HE said HE was the SON OF GOD - or GOD THE SON - this was enough to make HIM equal to GOD

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Jesus declared the Son is NOT equal to the Father! However he was the visible equality of the invisible God.
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  #80  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:38 AM
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yet more eternal distinctions - we must agree to the obvious distinction of Father and Son existing at LEAST until the end of the millineal reign

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
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