Quote:
Ehud
In giving the definition, I believe the meaning has been stretched too far. The definition used would seem to be this one: From telos; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.). To say the word *must* include moral character is incorrect. It *can* include moral character, but that is only one of the possible applications. Even if I grant that moral character is applicable, we then would have to define 'moral character'.
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Which do you think it means? If it means "complete" in what way is God complete?
It would read like:
Be ye therefore complete
EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is complete. Matt 5:48
So Jesus wants us to be complete like the Father is complete. My point in the video is that is to vague.
If the word means "mature" lets see how that works.
Be ye therefore mature
EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is mature. Matt 5:48
Can you imagine anyone being as
MATURE as God is mature? As
FULL AGE as he is of full age?
Some may think they are making it easier for the disciple by distancing themselves from the idea of moral character. That it would be to hard for us to have moral character like he has.
Would it be easier for us to be
AS MATURE as he is mature?
Would it be easier to be of
FULL AGE as he is of full age?
It seems it would be much easier for us to have the kind of character he has than the other possibilities.
Especially when you consider the parallel verses.
1 Peter 1:13-16
13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As
obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But
as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written,
Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Whatever "perfect" means in Matt 5:48 seems to be the same as "holy" in
1 Peter 1:15
Many will balk at the command of Peter to be holy
EVEN AS the Lord Jesus is holy.
Another parallel verse that helps us understand the meaning of "perfect" in Matt 5:48 may well be
1 John 3:2-3
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him
purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
The Lord through apostle John tells us to
PURIFY ourselves
EVEN AS he is pure!
Let us consider. The saint is called to be:
A. Perfect
even as he is perfect.
B.Holy
even as he is holy.
C. Pure
even as he is pure.
So "perfect" seems to carry the same idea as holy and pure.
Quote:
In Matthew 5:48, we have a summation of the preceding verses that leads me to believe that being perfect in this context means loving everyone, both friend and foe alike. In John 15, we are told if we keep His commandments, we will abide in His love. The commandment that is then highlighted is loving one another as He loved us. I don't say that to imply that nothing else matters, but it is certainly the immediate context.
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What are the two great commands?
Mark 12
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
So yes being perfect, holy, and pure certainly includes the action of love.
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The presentation doesn't seem to allow for those who are legitimately trying, but stumble. A truly sinless *requirement* is much more absolute than is being implied.
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If you indeed listened to what I said on the videos you will understand I stress that if one is
NOT perfect before God they need to
REPENT. Repentance restores the saint to perfection in Gods sight. So I have not presented anything different on the matter of holiness and perfection than the Bible presents.
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How would 1 John 1:8 fit into all of this? If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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Since this is what I would consider the top objection to the teaching of sinless perfection I will be glad to show how it fits in.
I would like to put it on a video. Let me give that a try and I will put it here hopefully today. If it does not work out I will type it as I'm doing now.