Have These Seven Trumpets Already Blown ?

[mfblume]

Here is one site you can research:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Book...ousia_03d.html

[Michael The Disciple]

Hmmmm,

On the two witnesses the author you recommend says:

Entirely concurring in these observations, which state the problem fairly, and conclusively set aside any allegorical interpretation as incompatible with the plain requirements of the case, we now proceed to search for the two witnesses of Christ who testified for their Lord and sealed their testimony with their blood, in Jerusalem, in the last days of the Jewish polity, and we have no hesitation in naming St. James and St. Peter as the persons indicated.

At least he does not try to make the assumption some do that they are simply the Bible and the Spirit.

We do have some Church history though. As powerful as Peter and James were nothing is said in the book of Acts or by any ancient Christian writer about these two men doing the mighty judgments called for in the text.

So do you agree with the author?

[Michael The Disciple]

Here the same author you recommend has this to say about the last trumpet.

The next result of the last trumpet is the declaration that the time of the judgment of the dead is come, bringing recompense to the people of God and retribution to His enemies (ver. 18).

We have here condensed into a few brief sentences the essence of the eschatology of the New Testament. The wrath that so often was declared to be coming is now come. It is the time of judgment for the dead: which supposes their resurrection; it is the time for the vindication of the martyrs of Christ, whose expostulation was heard in Rev. vi. 9, and for the rewarding of all the faithful, both small and great; and it is the time of retribution for the enemies of Christ, the destroyers of the land. In fact, the whole catastrophe represents a time and an act of judgment, and the scene of that judgment is the guilty land of Israel, and the time is ‘the end of the age,’ the termination of the Jewish economy.

So do you agree with him the resurrection of the dead took place in around 70ad?

[Michael The Disciple]

This doctrine does away with the great tribulation. At least to a partial preterist it effectivly puts them in the same category as pre trib. Nothing more needs to happen. Jesus can come at any time now. No living through massive destruction. No concern with the mark of the beast. Sounds pretty cozy.

Yet friends when one day we wake up with vast catostrophic events at our door only then will it be realized how important it was for the Lord to give us the prophetic warning.

The Lord did give the Church warning, and she fled Jerusalem's destruction. Thank God,

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here the same author you recommend has this to say about the last trumpet.

So do you agree with him the resurrection of the dead took place in around 70ad?

Brother, full preterism states a resurrection occurred in AD70. I am partial preterism. I have hollered about that difference for years now. lol

I quoted him because MUCH of what he says agrees with my viewpoint. But not resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This doctrine does away with the great tribulation. At least to a partial preterist it effectivly puts them in the same category as pre trib. Nothing more needs to happen. Jesus can come at any time now. No living through massive destruction. No concern with the mark of the beast. Sounds pretty cozy.

Yet friends when one day we wake up with vast catostrophic events at our door only then will it be realized how important it was for the Lord to give us the prophetic warning.

Yeah yeah yeah. Brother, everyone says anything could happen. But what saith the scriptures? Surely you are not as shallow as to stand on a simple statement like, "You'll see. It will come." You can say that for eternity, "But it just has not come yet!" As I said in the thread about the 1000 years, Premill futurism does not fit in light of explicit teachings in scriptures.

I do not like to gloss over issues and make simple statements such as "the early church believed post trib rapture," without detailingly proving my case. But, hey, that's just me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mfblume

I do not like to gloss over issues and make simple statements such as "the early church believed post trib rapture," without detailingly proving my case. But, hey, that's just me.

Yes sometimes I put a post in a thread and then dont get time to get back to it. So I say OUCH to that comment.

But as concerning the seven trumpets and the book of Revelation this historic view hardly finds anyone giving the same interpretation of the symbols.

And then there is its failure to find historic backing concerning what they claim has been fulfilled.

And again since you claim Revelation was simply revealing the judgment of God on Israel what present time relevance did it have for the SEVEN GENTILE CHURCHES to whom it was addressed?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Mfblume



Yes sometimes I put a post in a thread and then dont get time to get back to it. So I say OUCH to that comment.

But as concerning the seven trumpets and the book of Revelation this historic view hardly finds anyone giving the same interpretation of the symbols.

And then there is its failure to find historic backing concerning what they claim has been fulfilled.

And again since you claim Revelation was simply revealing the judgment of God on Israel what present time relevance did it have for the SEVEN GENTILE CHURCHES to whom it was addressed?

The entire church all over the land was afflicted by and very much concerned over the persecution from Jerusalem, the HQ of church persecution in that day. Acts even shows Jews appealing to Rome (the whore riding the beast) to persecute the church.

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by Sam

You'll get different answers on this.

Preterists will say yes, they've happened.

Others who believe the rapture takes place in Revelation chapter 4 and the second coming takes place in chapter 19 with the tribulation in between will say that they haven't happened yet.

A Rapture in Revelation Chapter 4? I've seen people caught up in the spirit and they were not Raptured....