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  #61  
Old 06-02-2014, 11:16 PM
shag shag is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
I anxiously await MissB's next blog dissection.

What issue will unleash the beast?

An article condoning magic hair?
A blog against TV?
A video rant against jewelry?

Careful, go down that road and you become like everyone else who speaks truth. And, as we already know, you're bothered that we're bothered by the lunacy of it all.


And I anxiously await the day u decide to quit posting on here till you pray thru, bury the bitterness, get full of the Spirit of Christ, and start building up your brothers and sisters in Christ instead of spending the majority of your posting doing just the opposite.
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Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29

Last edited by shag; 06-02-2014 at 11:22 PM.
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  #62  
Old 06-02-2014, 11:28 PM
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Ahhh...so refreshing. Consistency, thy name is AFF.
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  #63  
Old 06-02-2014, 11:51 PM
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Charnock Charnock is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Oh the humanity!
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  #64  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:24 AM
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Well, yes or they are trying to keep the spirit of unity in their organizations
That's not unity. That's uniformity.
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  #65  
Old 06-03-2014, 09:13 AM
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Fionn mac Cumh Fionn mac Cumh is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
That's not unity. That's uniformity.
Exactly. Its lame the reasons people will spit out in support of this garbage. My blessed mother said "Well they have uniforms in the military, why not in the church?" sigh....
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  #66  
Old 06-03-2014, 10:35 AM
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MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

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Originally Posted by ILG View Post
That's not unity. That's uniformity.
Agreed, and it's unreasonable uniformity. Maybe something similar in scope would be making all Pentecostal women wear the same hairdo. Except it's still worse, since removing facial hair every day requires some physical alteration.

I'm still shocked that anyone still holds the stance that facial hair on men is wrong. I really thought that idea was fading away. But then, colored shirts, too...

I do strongly object to the imposition of any sweeping church rule regarding male facial hair, and I mildly object to it being a stipulation for church membership. Conversely, I also object to removing the right of pastors to make somewhat arbitrary rules of conduct and appearance for the local congregation based on their personal preferences, as annoying as some of those rules might be.

What I find truly repugnant is the implication that men who follow an extra-biblical rule are in any way superior Christians to those who do not, and the implication or outright statement that facial hair on men is a sin with zero biblical support behind it. As for the latter, I can forgive some issues a bit, because I realize they surround scripture that can be interpreted one way or another, and even badly. I don't like it when scriptures are interpreted inaccurately (in my view), but I can forgive it if it's obvious the motive is trying one's best to follow scripture. However, when it's apparent that a person is completely outside of the Word, and using their influence to push their own personal likes and dislikes, it becomes far less forgivable.

The Apostles showed the hearts of compassionate leaders when they said in Acts 15:28, "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;" They didn't want to burden the saints with anything more than was necessary for them to live victoriously. Conversely, some ministers take the opposite tact, and it serves to shout their attitude to the world. They seem to take joy in weighing people down with extraneous rules and testing their commitment and consecration--which they were never called by God to do. The church leadership was never put in place by God to burden the saints. Paul said in II Corinthians 12:19, "Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ:but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying."

This scripture reminds me of a parenting principle our pastor has repeated through the years. He has always said parents shouldn't punish children for embarrassing them, or out of anger, and that parents should make sure all discipline is truly for the child's benefit--not the parents' benefit. That guiding principle is a fantastic one for parenting, because if you apply it diligently, you will carefully discipline your child[ren] in a way that's meant to build their character and benefit them as a person. In the same way, Paul shares a guiding principle for leaders: "...we do all things...for your edifying." A godly church leader centers his service around building up and equipping the saints; a self-serving leader imposes arbitrary rules to please himself.

Again, motive matters here. If a pastor weighs an issue, searches scripture, prays, and comes to the conclusion that ______ is bad for his congregation and then shares it with them from that POV and with that attitude, that is forgivable even if he's off base. Motive and attitude matters. But the flippant attitude of "I don't like it, so you shouldn't do it" with no compassion felt for the saints who may feel burdened by an extraneous demand isn't as easy to pardon.
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abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

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  #67  
Old 06-03-2014, 12:06 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

This goes back to the pharisees spirit.
who created to so many extra rules "to Protect" the Sabbath from being desecrated that the Sabbath went from being a benefit to being a burden.

Now days in Israel most of the Jews no longer bother to keep the Sabbath, because of all the extra rules that have been added to the sabbath, it is so burdensome to keep the sabbath that most people decide not to do it, they consider it impossible to keep the Sabbath, because those guys with "good intentions" decided they needed extra rules to "Help" the people be more holy. Isn't that the cry of the modern pharisees, they just want to help the people be more holy.
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2014, 02:50 PM
Brad Murphy Brad Murphy is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Charnock... I have to chime in and defend MissB here... I was a regular poster here for years and have to say that she has been one of the most balanced and thoughtful posters across this forum and its various predecessors. I think you are off-base here and seem to have some very personal bone to pick with MissB.

I've posted things so anti-UPC that it would make your skin crawl and she was never rude to me... if anything, she helped me to understand that I was the one who had changed, and that helped me to stop getting so riled up about issues in an organization I haven't been a part of for years. Other than my mom's funeral a couple of months ago, I haven't been in a UPC church for many years. I still have my same views, but don't see the point in offending people who are still in a culture/belief-system that I am no longer a part of. Obviously, you have the right to express yourself and your opinion, but speaking as someone who is very much NOT a UPC-apologist, your bias is coming in very clearly and if you don't see it, you might need to take a step back and examine why you feel so strongly about her. Respectfully... and I will not respond to further discussion on this, just wanted to say my two cents.
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  #69  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:40 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG View Post
That's not unity. That's uniformity.
Uniformity is unity. People doing the same, not rocking the boat or being schizmatic.

BTW since we were discussing allowing facial hair but not on the platform, it's not really uniformity.

As I said it's about not causing division or trouble from others who unfortunately still follow this old tradition
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #70  
Old 06-03-2014, 04:41 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Marty Ballestero doesn't LIKE facial hair on m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh View Post
Exactly. Its lame the reasons people will spit out in support of this garbage. My blessed mother said "Well they have uniforms in the military, why not in the church?" sigh....
Read what I said again. I never supported it. I explained WHY some churches allow facial hair but not on the platform.

Nobody was arguing we should all have a uniform
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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