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  #791  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:16 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

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Originally Posted by derAlte View Post
Scott, I'm glad you've done this research. As a young Pentecostal convert, I was blessed to know several members of the Yadon family and I was very fond of Ellis Scism. It is interesting to learn about Harry Morse who was a major influence to these men who I knew in their latter years.

I have come to understand from several sources, including my friend Tom Fudge's books that some of them did not believe the message of the New Birth the way I was taught it. I haven't moved on the Acts 2:38 message, but I will let God be their judge and will continue to the fondly remember the blessings imparted to me by them when I was young.
Excuse my friend, but you already judged them. Also consider this, when you were young you were most likely unable to identify how different they really were. Also TF (Thomas Fudge) like other historians tend to not tell the whole story. Something like the "victors write the history?" There is a lot to be said about that. In reading Fudge's book he either got offended at some point in the later half of the book. Or he got tired, because it changes half way through. Maybe he had to get a dead line? I don't know. But historians are one in a million. Most historians you need to re-research their material to find even 10% of the truth.
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  #792  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:18 AM
derAlte derAlte is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

Scott, were you ever able to access Ellis Scism's papers? I remember many years ago when Ellis & Marjorie Scism were living in Portland, that he had kept a vast amount of stuff over the decades. I wonder what happened to it all. Perhaps their children Harry & Ferne donated it to the UPCI archives? Hopefully it didn't all end up in a landfill after Ellis Scism's death.

Edit: It sticks in my aging mind that I may have already asked you this. If I'm repeating myself, forgive me.

Last edited by derAlte; 01-13-2019 at 08:06 AM.
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  #793  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:03 AM
derAlte derAlte is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Excuse my friend, but you already judged them. Also consider this, when you were young you were most likely unable to identify how different they really were. Also TF (Thomas Fudge) like other historians tend to not tell the whole story. Something like the "victors write the history?" There is a lot to be said about that. In reading Fudge's book he either got offended at some point in the later half of the book. Or he got tired, because it changes half way through. Maybe he had to get a dead line? I don't know. But historians are one in a million. Most historians you need to re-research their material to find even 10% of the truth.
I suppose you are right...I HAVE weighed some of the Yadon family doctrinal interpretations and found them wanting. As a young man, I did not even know they believed differently than what I was taught. But that doesn't mean I didn't love them or appreciate them as people. The members of that family that I knew were loving and decent human beings who could be friends with people who may not have shared their narrow interpretation of everything.

Over the years, I have been horrified by folks who share my interpretation of scripture who want to turn anybody who doesn't agree with them into cartoon-character villains. I think it boils down to the fact that they are naturally obnoxious and disagreeable people who have the mistaken belief that God will approve of them giving in their ugly, fleshly natures as long as they are "contending" for the truth. Much damage has been done to the Truth by folks defending it in hateful and unethical ways.

As someone with training in the historians's craft, I have the greatest respect for Tom Fudge's research methods. He is a competent and highly-trained historian. But as you know, there is no such thing as unbiased history. All historians bring their point of view to the interpretation of the facts. Tom Fudge's bias toward the Yadon/PCI position is beyond dispute. The last I knew, Fudge no longer holds even a vaguely Pentecostal theology. It would be interesting to give some other historian who wasn't so close to the situation the same primary source documents and interviews that Fudge used and see what new interpretation of the events at CBC that might emerge.

Last edited by derAlte; 01-13-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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  #794  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:08 AM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

I have not been given access to the Yadon document collection. They are aware of my research and have helped via interviews. Their kind assistance is deeply appreciated.

Tom Fudge recently came out with a full biography of C.H. Yadon. It is very interesting and lacks any theological biter aftertaste.

I have not counted the number of people I have interviewed or traded emails with. Dozens would describe the actual number. With rare exception, all fully cooperate and find value in the research.

Understanding the cultural context of my college education is meaningful to my life. I wish I had done interviews with Olive Haney when I had the chance. Jewel Yadon and I chatted whenever I needed and I miss being able to provide her with updates. David Gray mentions his early years on occasion and I need to explore his tape ministry for more data.


There is very little research done on the history of Oneness Pentecostalism in the USA. Hopefully, my efforts will be considered a contribution.
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  #795  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:42 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

I for one enjoy the reading of all our histories. I realize on a select group enjoys this endeavor. Keep up the good work.
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  #796  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:00 AM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

In 1924, Mattie Crawford was in Twin Falls, Idaho for a crusade. One of the members of her team was a former student of Harry Morse. His name was Frank Batchelder.

Frank Batchelder is the only Onenness Pentecostal I am aware of that worked directly with Mattie Crawford.

In other news Paul Batchelder and Rupert King are the latest names to be added to the roster of students who studied under Harry Morse. Looks like they were students around 1936-1937.

Last edited by Scott Pitta; 01-14-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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  #797  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

In 1912, Harry Morse conducted possibly the first camp meeting in Idaho. A reporter covered the event. Here is the article from the 4/12/1912 Caldwell Tribune.

WORLD WILL COME IN NEAR FUTURE
Star and Nampa Held Tight in the Throes of Brand New religion.
HAVE GIFT OF TONGUES
Stock to be Strictly New, Up-to the Minute and One of the Largest in the State, According to Mr. T. K. Little, whose Building will be Occupied by Establishment

A new religion, claiming to be a cutting of the original Apostolic faith, and first coming into notice in Los Angeles some six years since, has for its votaries practically the whole population of Star and a strong congregation in Nampa. World to End Soon. The claims made for the faith are that it is not new but is the return to the religion taught by Christ and practiced by the early disciples. They believe in the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost," enabling the baptised to "speak with strange tongues," in the "casting out of devils" by the disciples, even to the raising of the dead. Meetings are marked by perfervid enthusiasm merging into hysteria.

An abandoned store room with bare walls, undecorated, save for a few mottos hung here and there. The furniture consisting of a small reed organ, a stove in the center of the room where 14 joints form a precarious connection with the flue; some 30 plain pine benches with a strip for back rest and, inconspicuous but important, two low, unbacked benches, covered with black cheese cloth fastened on with brass headed tacks. These last constitute the "altar," the holy place. Seventy-five or eighty men and women, young and old with probably half that number of children and babies, constitute at once the audience and the participants. Their dress and appearance are in the main those of the well-to-do farmer, varied here and there by a costume or hat decidedly modish. Their faces, one notes, indicate health and vigor, in the case of the men reddened by exposure to sun were all on terms of mutual friendship. . , and wind, and glowing, glowing—from what? The impression received is that a festal party, the happy smiling faces, the bright eyes, the general air of genial good fellowship, the absence of formality, all might indicate a wedding or a "party" whose attendance were all on terms of mutual friendship.

And, as though to beat out this illusion, the attendants, coming in singly, in twos and threes, in families, I greet each other effusively and sit or circulate through among those who have preceeded them, talking, laughing, shaking hands, kissing (confined I however to the women exclusively)—not the rustling quiet that marks the I gathering of the church audience, but I the joyful, regathering of friends. There is no tense stillness while the black clothed minister ascends to the pulpit in solemn silence; no; suddenly a genial-looking farmer who has been talking and laughing in a group turns. and with his "let us kneel in prayer," the audience at once assumes the attitude of devition.

It isn't a prayer by the preacher. Every individual in the audience, children included, sends up his petition to the Throne; not the mumbled monotone of a ritual service—each one whispers, speaks, shouts his prayer, in an orderly confusion. The prayer over, the audience joins in singing the hymns from the ordinary hymnal, sung as called for by different members of the audience and rendered fairly well. And. alternately praying and singing, with an occasional impromptu exhortation or "testimony" by a self-appointed speaker, constitute the entire first part of the service, lasting for probably three hours. This Is varied only once, by a woman the

reading of the selected "lesson" from the new testament, the verses being read sequentially by the audience, and questions and discussions as to the points involved, the utterances are frequently ungrammatical, but marked by earnestness and evidence of deep study if not of great erudition. And, following this "study" the program of singing, prayer, testimony and exhortation on the part of the three or four aparant leaders, the children, meanwhile, whispering, talking, laughing, circulating freely, unrestrained, through the house; and about noon, lunch boxes, baskets and paper bags are produced all over the house, and the audience, especially the juvenile element, refresh themselves with picnic delicacies, the "services" meanwhile, continuing uninterrupted.

testimony, exhortation, hymn and prayer, following each other like wave upon wave; louder and louder the hymns are chorused, fervid and more fervid become the prayers, the exhortations more and more impassioned, to cast away sin, to believe and be baptised, baptised by the holy spirit; and meanwhile certain self constituted pleaders, men and women, circulate through the audience, shaking hands with the stranger and the yet "unconverted," arguing, pleading, pointing the way, the only way, for their eternal salvation; explaining, ar guing lovingly, strongly, insistently, come to the altar; come, give yourself to God; just try, brother; just let the Holy Spirit work within you; believe, brother, believe, and the Holy Spirit will demonstrate itself to you! And the color of the "converted" portion of the audience is rising, rising from a healthy glow to a flush; their eyes are brightening, from the clear brightness of health to the glow of the zealot; and suddenly there comes the invitation to come to the altar, those who have been saved and those who have not yet been filled with the spirit, and receive baptism. Following this the major portion of the audience, those who have received the baptism and the converts who have not yet come through group around one of the low cloth covered benches on their knees. Then ensues a scene partaking of the features of the olden time camp meeting. The services, if I I they may be so called, become purely emotional in character; the singing shouting, exhorting, are redoubled and without order; frenzied prayers are I shouted; the participants seem by their movements and gestures to try by physical force to pull down upon themselves,or upon those who have not received the baptism that glorious visitation of the spirit which appears so desired yet so reluctant.

And frenzy is piled upon frenzy, excitement pyramids; those around the 'altar" sob, cry out, shake convulsively, scream, throw their arms about. One by one drop to the floor , some white and motionless, some. shuddering convulsively, some scream. and throwing themselves about, all however looked after tenderly by those of the audience who did not join the throng at the altar .. but who now stand in a circle around about, helping where they can, commenting freely, "There's Sister —” she come through! awhile back and she's got the power again." "Brother —, he's gettin' the spirit; he's been tryin' for a month." "There she goes l she's talking with tongues,' she's talking with 'tongues!' while the converts, neophytes, exhorters, their voices mounting higher and higher, the excitement growing more and more intense, commence to I babble at intervals, in utterances, if which they be language, are certainly not English; and one stranger in the audience( catching a word or two, leans forward catching a few of the word leans forward catching a few of the words, and with some excitement communicates the fact that he recognizes them as Japanese.

the children run in and out climb over benches, chatter and laugh, regardless of the excitement treating the sight of mothers apparently in convulsions, quite as a matter of course. One pretty little girl whose mother—a fine looking, well dressed had, apparently been one of the happiest during the early portion of the service—was crying out, on the floor, babbling strange, wierd sounds and requiring the attention of three or four people to prevent her injuring herself—was asked whether she didn't fear her mother would be sick. She replied. "Oh, that's nothing " and went on with her play. And a big, broad shouldered man in the back of the house was saying earnestly to a stranger, "And it's the God's truth, sir, don't know what it was. It just hit me like a great, big hand and knocked me right off the bench onto the floor. But I didn't get the baptism. I’ve been trying for a month and I expect to come through most any time.''

The meeting house is styled, according to a card in the window, "The Church of the Apostles," and the members style themselves "Saints," according to information elicited, it originated with a negro in Los Angeles, who was suddenly stricken on the street, in the same manner as Saul of Tarsus, and came out from the trance into which he was thrown, speaking all manner of strange tongues and preaching baptism of the Holy Ghost, the casting out of devils and raising of the dead by true believers in Christ, in the same manner as was taught by the disciples in the early days following the crucifixion. The teaching spread to Portland, Seattle, and other coast cities, and reached Star last August. The townspeople practically en masse and great part of the population of the surrounding country became converted; and the new faith has recently been taken to Nampa, where it is said to have already a strong following.

One of the fundamental articles of faith is the belief that the end of the world is imminent. The believers point to the alleged return of Jesus to Jerusalem, to the wars and rumors of wars throughout the world, to the oppression of "the poor and weak by the rich and powerful, to the spread of defection among the people from the recognized Christian church, and claim that all this is in fulfillment of prophecy and shows that the re-advent of Christ is at hand.

The sincerity, honesty and devotion of the believers cannot be questioned. If the utterances, incomprehensible to those having command only of English, are really the strange tongues they claim are being spoken, and not merely the babblings of hysteria, there is much matter for thought. It is claimed that the religion is cropping out spontaneously, in widely separated regions—in Russia, in Siberia, in China, in Africa, in South America, as well as on this continent, people are undergoing the same experience, are receiving the Pentecostal Baptism, and speaking all manner of tongues. Miraculous cures are claimed to have been effected by the laying on of hands by the "Saints" and instances are even stated of the persons dead for hours, who have been returned to the living by the command of believers. The question as to what it is remains unanswered save by those professing the new religion—that it is the original Apostolic faith, founded by Christ himself, from which the so called Christian church of today has drifted hopelessly away.
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  #798  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:42 AM
Apostolic1ness Apostolic1ness is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

Thanks for posting.
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  #799  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:56 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

Has anyone figured out who was Harry Morse?
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  #800  
Old 01-21-2019, 03:53 PM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Who was Harry Morse ?

Harry Isaac Morse was a guy who began his ministry in a Salvation Army type orgainzation called the Volunteers of America. He then worked for the Peniel Mission, which was similar in function to the Volunteers of America.

In 1906, Harry learned of the Holy Spirit outpouring at Azusa Street. Probably from Frank Bartleman. He visits the Apostolic Faith Mission. He ends up pastoring a Peniel Mission in Los Angeles. Actually, it was in San Pedro.

He moves around a bit. Preaching at Peniel Missions in California.

In 1912, he brings Pentecost to Idaho. He has a camp meeting. He preaches at a few other churches in Washington.

In 1913, he is in Los Angeles at a camp meeting where the Oneness revelation comes out.

In 1915, he brings a ministry team to Oakland to restart a mission that has roots in work done by a team from Azusa Street.

The Big Downtown Mission is born. It is part church, part mission for the down and out. It has a training school for Pentecostals who wish to enter the ministry.

The church is the longest lasting Pentecostal church in Oakland. He pastors there from 1915-1963. Prior to WW2, it was the largest Oneness church on the West Coast.

Around a dozen or so students were under the training of Harry Morse. Most stayed for a year or two. Many of them became pastors.

The war brought an end to the mission aspect of the Big Downtown Mission. It also ended the minister training program.

The last students were in 1942.

In 1949, a Bible School was started in Stockton by one of the former students of Harry Morse. His name was Clyde Haney.

About the same time, a similar training program was started in San Diego by a different Harry Morse alumni, David Gray.

The Big Downtown Mission was the launching pad and first stop home for missionaries from East Asia.

I started out with nothing more than his name. Now, I have a better idea who Harry was and who he knew and what he did.

Finding former students is elusive. I have names of around 40 students who were there between 1915-1942.

Last edited by Scott Pitta; 01-21-2019 at 03:55 PM.
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