Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge
Ye must be born again. How is one born of the water and Spirit?
WE differ big time. Because being born again of the water is Baptism.
Got scripture?
You don't have scripture for the above. Being born of water is not a birth we can do again. If you think Jesus was saying so, then you also believe there are two baptisms, which also goes against scripture that says there is one.
I believe in being baptised, but I don't believe I was born again at baptism. In fact, I've never heard of that belief until coming here.
Born again at baptism? Hmmm...
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
You don't have scripture for the above. Being born of water is not a birth we can do again. If you think Jesus was saying so, then you also believe there are two baptisms, which also goes against scripture that says there is one.
I believe in being baptised, but I don't believe I was born again at baptism. In fact, I've never heard of that belief until coming here.
Born again at baptism? Hmmm...
Those would be 2-steppers!
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
So, if sins are forgiven at repentance, but not remitted until baptism, then God really doesn't forgive at repentance, the way I see it. To forgive, but to leave them there as a mark against you, is not true forgiveness.
Strong's says that remission is the pardon of sins as if they were never committed. It's different than forgiveness, but I have to admit, I don't fully understand.
If baptism is the pardon, why aren't we baptized more often? God continues to forgive when we ask, and He forgives, but are they automatically remitted after we are baptized the first time?
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne
Strong's says that remission is the pardon of sins as if they were never committed. It's different than forgiveness, but I have to admit, I don't fully understand.
If baptism is the pardon, why aren't we baptized more often? God continues to forgive when we ask, and He forgives, but are they automatically remitted after we are baptized the first time?
The writers of the Scriptures dictate the meaning ... not translators ...
they used one word for both forgivenes and remission ... aphesis.
There is no separation. You will not see this in the NIV, ESV, NASB or even in the Spanish RVA
It is for this reason that Bernard, and maybe even, Mizpeh ... have to include repentance + baptism = aphesis/forgiveness/remission ...
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
The Holy Ghost does not inhabit an unclean heart (full of sin), therefore it stands to reason that sins are forgiven at repentance.
Baptism does not wash away our sins. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that.
But we must have the blood, water, and Spirit applied to live an overcoming life in this world.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
The Holy Ghost does not inhabit an unclean heart (full of sin), therefore it stands to reason that sins are forgiven at repentance.
Baptism does not wash away our sins. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that.
But we must have the blood, water, and Spirit applied to live an overcoming life in this world.
Ah ... yes .... the Cornelius dilemma ... nor what is quickened to life still be dead. (Acts 10, Romans 8)
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoni
Daniel,
Don't be so hard on "M". Truth is many of our Apostolic friends do not know the scriptures or how to defend their belief system.
*hugs*
Rhoni
Rhoni, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about or was indoctrinated into this belief. I searched it out after I was taught it and I believe it is what the Bible teaches. Dan can be as hard as he wants, I'm not afraid to be labeled. But thank you for your compassionate words.
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To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Rhoni, don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about or was indoctrinated into this belief. I searched it out after I was taught it and I believe it is what the Bible teaches. Dan can be as hard as he wants, I'm not afraid to be labeled. But thank you for your compassionate words.
I think you don't know what you're talking about on this one either. Would love to hear your exegesis on this extreme view.
Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Ah ... yes .... the Cornelius dilemma ... nor what is quickened to life still be dead. (Acts 10, Romans 8)
Ah, yes, the knife cuts both ways.
According to this theory, the Holy Ghost cannot dwell in an unclean vessel, therefore every time someone sins the HG has to leave, then we repent, and the HG comes back in and so on and so forth.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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