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Old 12-17-2007, 11:55 PM
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Fiyahstarter Fiyahstarter is offline
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Believers Pray for Boldness

Acts 4:29-31:

"...and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

My question: How does this "filling" referred to in the above passage compare to/differ from the initial Holy Ghost baptism infilling?
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:30 AM
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I would think it is the same...am waiting to see what others think.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:50 AM
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I think this verse says that all those who were praying together were Spirit filled.
The baptism of The Holy Ghost gives believers the ability to be a witness for Christ.ACTS.1:8
The baptism of The Holy Ghost gives a believer power and boldness to be an effective Christian witness,through a superrnatural annointing.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:12 PM
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Right on Scott.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:13 PM
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Thank you Bro.Jason.I want to read your devotionals.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:01 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter View Post
Acts 4:29-31:

"...and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

My question: How does this "filling" referred to in the above passage compare to/differ from the initial Holy Ghost baptism infilling?
One possibility: This does not refer to a refilling in the sense that they leaked and needed more, but possibly it refers to a renewing of the experience.

Let me use an analogy....crude, so don't try to take it beyond what it was intended...the waves of the ocean...you are standing on the shore and hit with a wave. It completely drenches you. You feel the impact of it at first and remain drenched afterwards and are not even beginning to dry out when another wave hits....you are already drenched so you can't be anymore wet, but you FEEL the impace of the wave hitting you never the less and the water rushing over you.

Of the word filled strongs says of the original greek
(literally or figuratively [imbue, influence, supply]); specifically to fulfil (time): - accomplish, full (. . . come), furnish.

I always wonder about the use of filled in this sense...it has to be metaphorical for something. Why do I say that? Spirit is not a physical thing....and if it was is it filling our intestines? What? What is being filled? Sure we say "us" but what does that mean for a person to be filled with the Spirit of another? Is it our bodies that are being filled? If so...where is our spirit then? Don't we already "fill" that space?
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:59 PM
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I'm just wondering...

Because the first time these folks were FILLED, the result was they "began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

Yet in Acts 4:29-31 when they were FILLED, the result was boldness to witness and healing hands.

It seems to me that both incidents resulted in different by-products of the Holy Ghost to be manifested.

So... I'm wondering,

Would we accuse someone of not being saved if they didn't have the gift of healing?
Yet we accuse them of not being saved if they don't speak in tongues. I don't get it.

I am really only trying to understand.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter View Post
I'm just wondering...

Because the first time these folks were FILLED, the result was they "began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:4

Yet in Acts 4:29-31 when they were FILLED, the result was boldness to witness and healing hands.

It seems to me that both incidents resulted in different by-products of the Holy Ghost to be manifested.

So... I'm wondering,

Would we accuse someone of not being saved if they didn't have the gift of healing?
Yet we accuse them of not being saved if they don't speak in tongues. I don't get it.

I am really only trying to understand.
Wrong. In the first filling the only thing immediately mentioned was tongues, but it says many signs and wonders were done by the Apostles in verse 43 I think..

In the other chapter it says they prayed God would do signs wonders and miracles so they can have boldness to speak His word...both incidents no doubt had the same results
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter View Post
Acts 4:29-31:

"...and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

My question: How does this "filling" referred to in the above passage compare to/differ from the initial Holy Ghost baptism infilling?
Your post raises a good question about terminology. Does the phrase in Acts 2:4, "...and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost ..." represent some sort of initiation experience? Is it, once they've been "filled" they now no longer need to experience the "ritual" again?

I don't think any OP's would want to put it quite that way, but that's how we appear to treat the experience. Once the convert has spoken in tonguews we pass them off and move on to the next seeker. It's sort of like Pledge Week in a fraternity. Once the pledge has swallowed a goldfish and had his bottom paddled he is forever a member and can now watch as others suffer the initiation experience.

I remember reading a treatment on the verb "be filled (with the Spirit)" in Ephesians 5:8 (was it Bauer's Lexicon?). Anyway, the point the exegete wanted to make was that the verb form there could be understood as "be, being filled with the Spirit..." It meant that the infilling of the Holy Spirit was not to be some "initiation" experience, but a life long condition, sort of like leaving a glass under the faucet as a stream of water filled the glass over and over again.

Luke may not be intending that we see the apostles having a "double" experience. It may be that he is reemphasizing the presence and work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

There is also the possibility that that Luke is describing something phenomologically. The Holy Spirit was always present in the lives of the apostles and they were always "filled," but at certain times there were diverse accompanying outward manifestations. Others have already commented on this.

But your question about salvation being evidenced by speaking in other tongues is perhaps most intriguing. You've caused me to ask, "Do we all need to be apostles to be Apostolic?"
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