Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:30 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

1 Corinthians 11.2–11, Paul says "And any woman who prays or proclaims God's message in public worship with nothing on her head disgraces her husband" - instructions which indicate that they did pray and proclaim God's message in public worship - and he doesn't forbid them to do that, just tells them how to dress. Do you honestly think Paul would have told a woman how to dress, spoke to her about her hair so she could speak in church and then turn right around and say, Shut up…?
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:32 PM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
And.... how can a woman prophesy in church, if she is to keep silence? Those two scenarios just don't work. Women obviously prophesy in church, according 1 Cor. 11. But yet, according to you, women are to keep silent in church.

How then can a woman prophesy in silence? Hmmm.

Hmmm, let's see, did I write this:


New International Version
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

New Living Translation
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

English Standard Version
the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

New American Standard Bible
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

King James Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.

International Standard Version
the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says.

NET Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
the women must keep silent. They don't have the right to speak. They must take their place as Moses' Teachings say.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Let your women keep silence in the congregations {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones}, for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be in subjection, as also saith the law.

King James 2000 Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law.

American King James Version
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also said the law.

American Standard Version
let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.

Darby Bible Translation
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says.

English Revised Version
Let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Webster's Bible Translation
Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.



__________________
Rare is the Individual Found who is Genuinely in Search of Biblical Truth.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:35 PM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
1 Corinthians 11.2–11, Paul says "And any woman who prays or proclaims God's message in public worship with nothing on her head disgraces her husband" - instructions which indicate that they did pray and proclaim God's message in public worship - and he doesn't forbid them to do that, just tells them how to dress. Do you honestly think Paul would have told a woman how to dress, spoke to her about her hair so she could speak in church and then turn right around and say, Shut up…?

Guess this wasn't "Paul" talking ?



New International Version
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

New Living Translation
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

English Standard Version
the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

New American Standard Bible
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

King James Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.

International Standard Version
the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says.

NET Bible
the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak. Rather, let them be in submission, as in fact the law says.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but to be in subjection, just as The Written Law also says.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
the women must keep silent. They don't have the right to speak. They must take their place as Moses' Teachings say.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Let your women keep silence in the congregations {Gr. ekklesia � called out ones}, for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be in subjection, as also saith the law.

King James 2000 Bible
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law.

American King James Version
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also said the law.

American Standard Version
let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.

Darby Bible Translation
Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says.

English Revised Version
Let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

Webster's Bible Translation
Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


For about the 20th time now - Prophecy is NOT a sermon from the Scriptures .
__________________
Rare is the Individual Found who is Genuinely in Search of Biblical Truth.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:37 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

so you want to examine different versions of the Bible...let me see...

The Lord gives the command, the women that proclaims the good tidings are a great host (Psalm 68:11 NASB).

Dr. Adam Clark gives this literal translation of Psalms 68:11: Of the female preachers, there was a great host.

Isaiah 40:9: Dr. Clark’s literal translation is also enlightening, AO daughter that bring good tidings to Zion, get thee up into the high mountain. O thou woman that publishes good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid, say unto the city of Judah, Behold your God.”

Here is a list of translations of Psalms 68:11. One can certainly draw strength from. “The Lord giveth the word, the women that published the tiding are a great host” (Psalm 68:11 ASV).

“The Lord gives the word (of power): the women who bear and publish (the news) are a great host” (Amp. Bible).

“The Lord proclaims good news, or the word, women bearing good news” (New English Bible).

“The Lord gives the word; women bear the glad tidings” [a Vast Army] (New American Bible).

“The Lord gave matter to the women to tell of the great army” (The Geneva Bible).

“The Lord gave the command and many women carried the news” (The Good News Bible).

“When the Lord sent news of victory, the women who told it were a mighty host” (James Moffatts Translation).

The word “publish” in Hebrew is “basar” (Strong’s 1319), which means “to announce (glad news); messenger, preach, publish and shewforth.”

The Bible teaches a “vast army” of women proclaimers. According to Strong’s 6635, it means “A mass of persons.”
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:39 PM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdp View Post
Ahh yes, I knew it was coming. Here's what Dr. Daniel Wallace (leading Greek scholar & papyrologist of our day) told me in a personal email about this argument:

Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' Generally speaking, the definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view.


Sorry, this attempted dodge won't work neither syntactically, exegetically, nor grammatically.

Blessings....

Bumpety-Bump-Bump .


Many more where that came from (e.g., Dr. Douglas Moo; Dr. Wayne Grudem; etc.).
__________________
Rare is the Individual Found who is Genuinely in Search of Biblical Truth.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:41 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

In Romans 16:1-16 we find a list of prominent people, one out of three who were women. Over all, the Epistles and the book of Acts suggest that New Testament categories of leadership were far more diverse, far more complete, and far more loosely defined than today. Women and men alike taught, presided over house churches, spoke as prophets and teachers, served as deacons and worked as missionaries and discipled new converts to establish new believers in the new churches.
Women appear in the record wherever Christianity spread. Texts that mention women of Judea begin with the story of Pentecost. It records the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on men and women alike (Acts 1-2).
Paul speaks of Mary as working hard (bestowed much labor) among the Romans. The verb is used elsewhere by the Apostle to describe ministerial labor in the gospel. In Romans 16:12, it is applied to another woman Persis who has "labored much in the Lord". In I Corinthians 15:10 it capsizes apostolic labors. I Thessalonians 5:12 teaches respect for “those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord...” Their prepositional phrase translated "among you" is rendered "over you" in Galatians 4:11 in the RSV. It is possible that Mary had some overseeing responsibility in her ministry.
The text goes on to speak of Mary of Jerusalem (Acts 12:12). There is no mention of her husband, so it is safe to assume she pastored the church that met at her house. An order of widows is found in Acts 6:1-3, 1 Timothy 5:3-16. Paul designates Mary as working hard among the Romans. The verb is used in other scriptures by Paul to describe ministerial labor in the gospel.
Dorcas was a woman disciple (Acts 9:36-4). Most people think that the word disciple means a man. Disciple is an inclusive term or title and refers to all women or men seeking to follow God’s will and purpose for their lives.
In the cities of Asia Minor prominent women include Nymphas of Colossae, presided over a house church (Colossians 4:15) The Greek Church has listed Nymphas on the Greek Calendar, recognizing her as a holy Apostle Romans 16:7 “men of note,” men is omitted in the Greek, “ectshomic.”
Read according to Greek, "they are of note" the word "men" is inserted by the translators. From Rome Claudia sends greeting to Timothy (2 Timothy 4:20-21).
Junia was an apostolic woman. No male form of the name "Junia" existed in the Hellenistic world. The church father Chrysostom wrote and indeed to be Apostles at all is a great thing. But to be even amongst these of note, just consider what a great encomium this is. But they were of note owing to their works, to their achievements. Oh how great is the devotion of this woman that she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle."

Tryphena, Tryphosa and dear Persis, the mother of Rufus (Romans 16:12). Persis who has worked hard in the Lord, First Corinthians 15:10 points out is named among the apostolic laborers. First Thessalonians 5:12 calls upon the church to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord. “Among you” is a prepositional phrase which is rendered over you in Galatians 4:11 RSV (repeat for Mary).
The account of the risen Jesus as discussed earlier reveal that woman could fulfill the requirements for the role of apostle. They have a direct confrontation with the risen Jesus and they receive a commission from Him to preach the gospel.

Julia and the sister of Nereus, Romans 16:11-16.

Apphea of Colossae, who hosts a house church with her husband Philemon (Colossians 4:9 and Philippians 1:2).

Priscilla, a mobile missionary who with her husband Aquilla works mainly in Ephesus (Acts 18:19-20; 1 Corinthians 16:19; Romans 16:3-5; 2 Timothy 4:19). They had a church in their home in Ephesus at two different times, John in 337 A. D. wrote that Priscilla was eloquent and proper and stated that her husband accompanied her.

In the cities of Macedonia and Greece, we read about Lydia.

Eudora and Syntyche of Philippe serve as co-workers with Paul in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3).

Cited in Willion Sandy & Arthur Headlan, The Epistle to the Romans (Eldenbergh T & T Clark, 1902, p. 423). They have labored side by side with me (or fought beside me) in the gospel (Philippians 4:3). The compound verb “labored side by side” denotes unity in sharing a common task. Their women did not serve, under Paul or behind Paul or below Paul. They served beside Paul. They were equal with him in a common ministry. Notice In the Gospel, shows us a clear understanding they were ministers. Chloe speaks for some members of the church of Corinth. (1 Corinthians 1:11).

Phoebe is a deacon of the church of Cenchreas (Romans 16:1-2).

There is Typhaena and Tryphose who were probably sisters in Romans 16:12). They along with Persis are designated as workers in the Lord as with Mary in Romans 16:6; these women all engaged in ministerial activity. The word worker suggests more a function than office.
In First Thessalonians 5:12, Paul commands the church to give respect and recognition to the laborers and co-workers who are "over you in the Lord." In other places Paul uses these identical descriptive phrases to refer to his female colleagues. Ephesians 2:6 teaches that believers raised with Christ are seated with Him (sharing His rule) in the heavenly places and Romans 8:17calls us "fellow heirs with Christ". If it is Christ that dominates our vision, we will not be preoccupied with male or female or gender discrepancies for both will reign with Him.
Just from the examples in this chapter alone, we find women are called of God to preach, to teach, to pastor, and to handle the administration of the church.
Women are disciples of Christ. They are sisters in the Lord and they serve God on equal parallel line with their brothers. The streamline interpretation of the fall, blames women for sin coming into the world, conflicts with Paul’s teaching in Romans and First Corinthians. He strongly stressed that sin came into the world through Adam not the woman.
In the Apostle’s final greeting (Romans 16), he endorses and salutes both men and women who share in the ministry of the gospel in the church and in the world.
Long before Jesus’ time, discrimination of the women began during the Babylonian captivity or shortly afterward when the Jews returned from the dispersion under Persian King, Cyrus. The decline of women in Israel was always due to the invasion of heathen influence.
Or according to the book of Josephus, women cannot be witnesses. By the 3rd century women were usually barred from the priesthood. By the 4th century, the female deacon (deaconess) had been removed from God’s service all together. (See Council of Orange)
Archeological and literary evidence reveals that the elimination of women from church office was resisted. Frescoes, Masaics and inscriptions designate women as priests and a catant fresco in Rome that dates to the 4th century identifies a woman as a bishop. And yes, there was even a female pope. However, she was disguised as a man so that her femaleness would not show.
The language of an edict of the Council of Orange in 441 AD indicates that as late as the 5th century even deaconesses were still considered clerics.
Even though there was a vehement struggle of the woman in God’s service some sources show an overwhelming impression that the first generation Christians endeavored to put into effect the gender equality practiced by Jesus.
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:42 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

thought you were off to bed....
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:44 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Philip’s Daughters

Acts 21:9: And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. Here we have a quartet of gospel women, who while living out their lives among heathen neighbors continued doing God’s will.
Notice these “girls” were in the company of Paul who said in 1 Corinthians 14:34,35: “women keep silence in the church.” Along with their father Philip, they were prophetesses. Do you think Paul said girls, don’t prophecy; it is not permitted for you to speak? Of course not!
To prophesy is to preach according to Webster (National Dictionary of English Language P. F. Collier & Son, New York 1937). Prophetess “female preacher” (Young’s Analytical Concordance pg. 781).
Some are quick to say they prophesied only in homes, and not in church, but Ephesians 4:12 says, “Even so ye, for as much as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:46 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 26,978
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

You would have a hard time listening to orders from Huldah....
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 01-18-2014, 11:48 PM
rdp rdp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,667
Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
so you want to examine different versions of the Bible...let me see...

The Lord gives the command, the women that proclaims the good tidings are a great host (Psalm 68:11 NASB).

Dr. Adam Clark gives this literal translation of Psalms 68:11: Of the female preachers, there was a great host.

Isaiah 40:9: Dr. Clark’s literal translation is also enlightening, AO daughter that bring good tidings to Zion, get thee up into the high mountain. O thou woman that publishes good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid, say unto the city of Judah, Behold your God.”

Here is a list of translations of Psalms 68:11. One can certainly draw strength from. “The Lord giveth the word, the women that published the tiding are a great host” (Psalm 68:11 ASV).

“The Lord gives the word (of power): the women who bear and publish (the news) are a great host” (Amp. Bible).

“The Lord proclaims good news, or the word, women bearing good news” (New English Bible).

“The Lord gives the word; women bear the glad tidings” [a Vast Army] (New American Bible).

“The Lord gave matter to the women to tell of the great army” (The Geneva Bible).

“The Lord gave the command and many women carried the news” (The Good News Bible).

“When the Lord sent news of victory, the women who told it were a mighty host” (James Moffatts Translation).

The word “publish” in Hebrew is “basar” (Strong’s 1319), which means “to announce (glad news); messenger, preach, publish and shewforth.”

The Bible teaches a “vast army” of women proclaimers. According to Strong’s 6635, it means “A mass of persons.”

Here's the full context (let's see if this is women "preaching from the Scriptures"):


68 Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered,
And let those who hate Him flee before Him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
As wax melts before the fire,
So let the wicked perish before God.


3 But let the righteous be glad; let them exult before God;
Yes, let them rejoice with gladness.
4 Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
Lift up a song for Him who rides through the deserts,
Whose name is the Lord, and exult before Him.
5 A father of the fatherless and a judge for the widows,
Is God in His holy habitation.

6 God makes a home for the lonely;
He leads out the prisoners into prosperity,
Only the rebellious dwell in a parched land.
7 O God, when You went forth before Your people,
When You marched through the wilderness, Selah.
8 The earth quaked;
The heavens also dropped rain at the presence of God;
Sinai itself quaked at the presence of God, the God of Israel.

9 You shed abroad a plentiful rain, O God;
You confirmed Your inheritance when it was parched.
10 Your creatures settled in it;
You provided in Your goodness for the poor, O God.
11 The Lord gives the command;
The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host:



*Sorry Sister - nothing here about women "preaching the Word of God to men" (also, the word "good" before "tidings" is in italics indicating it is not a part of the original MSS)??


*But, again, I've already dealt with these passages years ago & shown you this. Kinda' like: .


*God Bless .
__________________
Rare is the Individual Found who is Genuinely in Search of Biblical Truth.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do You Believe In Women Preachers? Caston Smith Fellowship Hall 2214 02-11-2020 07:43 AM
Women Preachers Disciple4life Deep Waters 181 10-09-2013 05:22 PM
WWPF to allow women preachers Charlie Brown WPF News 250 01-27-2009 10:05 AM
Women Preachers DEAK Fellowship Hall 69 07-17-2007 02:15 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.