Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Sanctuary > Deep Waters > Branhamism
Facebook

Notices

Branhamism Discussion of distinctive doctrines of William M. Branham.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 05-29-2008, 10:12 AM
Grasshopper
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

I once knew a man who saw this in a more practical manner. He didn’t even believe it had anything to do with “speaking in languages” as we Pentecostals would interpret it. He sees it as order for the church in regards to saints who speak foreign languages. For example if a man speaks Arabic, “an unknown language”, he shouldn’t speak in a gathering unless he or another can interpret him. And there should be a limit to foreign speakers of three. If this man comes to a gathering and finds that they do not adequately understand his language he should remain silent and pray only to himself and to God. My 'ol friend sees it as down to earth practical guidance to a church in a region where people often spoke multiple languages. In his interpretation it would read:

I Corinthians 14:1-40 (modified)
{14:1} Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts,]
but rather that ye may prophesy. {14:2} For he that
speaketh in an [unknown] language speaketh not unto men,
but unto God: for no man understandeth [him;] howbeit in
the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {14:3} But he that
prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and
exhortation, and comfort. {14:4} He that speaketh in an
[unknown] language edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth
edifieth the church. {14:5} I would that ye all spake with
languages, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he
that prophesieth than he that speaketh with languages, except
he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. {14:6}
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with languages,
what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by
revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by
doctrine? {14:7} And even things without life giving sound,
whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the
sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
{14:8} For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall
prepare himself to the battle? {14:9} So likewise ye, except
ye utter by the language words easy to be understood, how
shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the
air. {14:10} There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices
in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.
{14:11} Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I
shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that
speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me. {14:12} Even so
ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts,] seek that
ye may excel to the edifying of the church. {14:13}
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] language
pray that he may interpret. {14:14} For if I pray in an
[unknown] language, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding
is unfruitful. {14:15} What is it then? I will pray with the
spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will
sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding
also. {14:16} Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how
shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen
at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what
thou sayest? {14:17} For thou verily givest thanks well, but
the other is not edified. {14:18} I thank my God, I speak
with languages more than ye all: {14:19} Yet in the church I
had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by
my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand
words in an [unknown] language. {14:20} Brethren, be not
children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children,
but in understanding be men. {14:21} In the law it is
written, With [men of] other languages and other lips will I
speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear
me, saith the Lord. {14:22} Wherefore languages are for a
sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:
but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but
for them which believe. {14:23} If therefore the whole
church be come together into one place, and all speak with
languages, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or
unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? {14:24} But
if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or
[one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
{14:25} And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest;
and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and
report that God is in you of a truth. {14:26} How is it then,
brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a
psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a language, hath a revelation, hath
an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
{14:27} If any man speak in an [unknown] language, [let it
be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course;
and let one interpret. {14:28} But if there be no interpreter,
let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to
himself, and to God. {14:29} Let the prophets speak two or
three, and let the other judge. {14:30} If [any thing] be
revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his
peace. {14:31} For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all
may learn, and all may be comforted. {14:32} And the
spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. {14:33}
For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in
all churches of the saints. {14:34} Let your women keep
silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to
speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as
also saith the law. {14:35} And if they will learn any thing,
let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for
women to speak in the church. {14:36} What? came the
word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
{14:37} If any man think himself to be a prophet, or
spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write
unto you are the commandments of the Lord. {14:38} But if
any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. {14:39}
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to
speak with languages. {14:40} Let all things be done decently
and in order.

I don’t agree…but I found it to be a novel interpretation. lol
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-29-2008, 10:13 AM
Dr. Vaughn
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkstokes View Post
I understand your point and I do not judge WB.

I think the reason why I always address your comments is not because I have a personal agenda with you. I do not. It is because you seem to esteem the words of WB for more then what they were/are.

Look

I like A W Tozer -- I listen to his sermons and read his books. However he is not a go between me the WORD. WB seems to be your go between.
Fair enough brother
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-29-2008, 10:14 AM
Dr. Vaughn
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Dr. Vaughn do YOU have Branham's picture or the cloud picture in your church? Jesus knows.
Not a one of them.. what say ye?
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-29-2008, 10:30 AM
Dr. Vaughn
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Grasshopper... I must tell you how refreshing it is to meet someone who is at least willing to listen.. thanks

First of all,, I have been speaking in tongues since my childhood... although I do not believe it is the INITIAL EVIDENCE.. we can argue about that later...... I definitly believe in its operation and am glad to say, I practice it daily in prayer.....

With that said,, you and I see the local gathering of believers on the first day of the week with two seperate glasses. Wheras you see it as a time of worship and praise and celebration.... I understand it to be strictly for the "perfecting, maturing and teaching of saints" and therefore there is no purpose for tongues in the local service.... because in those scheduled meetings tongues could distract a visitor who might be there to hear the gospel..... they will think we are mad.... our church demands that should someone speak in tongues,, they are more than welcome to but they bear the heavy responsibilty of obeying Pauls teachings and if there is no one there interpret they must do as Paul instructed them "pray that THEY MIGHT interpet"... and because of this have burden of scripture you can be assured if you hear someone speaking in tongues in our meetings.. there is NO DOUBT that person knowing the heavy burden they bear.. has indeed heard from God and this message will happen as it is given"

I will give you an example......about 4 weeks ago right after we had sang a few songs together as a corporate body....... we were just standing in the presence of God and a sister began to speak in tongues..... I asked God for the interpretation and it would not come... about 5 minutes passed and the church was silent as we KNOW according to scripture... we MUST have an interpretation........ and this sister had never interpreted before but I saw her sincerity as she was praying for God to give her the interpretation...

and finally, the message came forth.... I don't know all the words but it was along this line...... bear in mind,,, we have been trying to sell our current church building in a very bad real estate market" the message said "stand still, do not hurry, do not be anxious, do not try to make things happen before the time... for I the Lord will cause this property to be sold in my time, once you let go of your agendas then you will see my hand at work.... and you shall see this as soon as you release this burden to me"

of course thats not word for word.. but it is the gist...... to make a long story short,, last week a Phillipino church walked in and paid us almost twice the market value... no questions asked.. it is SOLD.......

You see,, that message had a purpose,, that sister was under a burden of scripture and it caused perfect order... no visitor thought we were mad,, it was in perfect order

but when you walk in a church service and you have people running the isles like children... screaming and shouting in convulsions.. heads jerking, necks almost being broken in ecstatic euphoria... everybody speaking in tongues at once..... it is the very thing God is not the author of Chaos

and sadly most of the time it is a pure display of flesh
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:14 PM
Grasshopper
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
Grasshopper... I must tell you how refreshing it is to meet someone who is at least willing to listen.. thanks

First of all,, I have been speaking in tongues since my childhood... although I do not believe it is the INITIAL EVIDENCE.. we can argue about that later...... I definitly believe in its operation and am glad to say, I practice it daily in prayer.....

With that said,, you and I see the local gathering of believers on the first day of the week with two seperate glasses. Wheras you see it as a time of worship and praise and celebration.... I understand it to be strictly for the "perfecting, maturing and teaching of saints" and therefore there is no purpose for tongues in the local service.... because in those scheduled meetings tongues could distract a visitor who might be there to hear the gospel..... they will think we are mad.... our church demands that should someone speak in tongues,, they are more than welcome to but they bear the heavy responsibilty of obeying Pauls teachings and if there is no one there interpret they must do as Paul instructed them "pray that THEY MIGHT interpet"... and because of this have burden of scripture you can be assured if you hear someone speaking in tongues in our meetings.. there is NO DOUBT that person knowing the heavy burden they bear.. has indeed heard from God and this message will happen as it is given"

I will give you an example......about 4 weeks ago right after we had sang a few songs together as a corporate body....... we were just standing in the presence of God and a sister began to speak in tongues..... I asked God for the interpretation and it would not come... about 5 minutes passed and the church was silent as we KNOW according to scripture... we MUST have an interpretation........ and this sister had never interpreted before but I saw her sincerity as she was praying for God to give her the interpretation...

and finally, the message came forth.... I don't know all the words but it was along this line...... bear in mind,,, we have been trying to sell our current church building in a very bad real estate market" the message said "stand still, do not hurry, do not be anxious, do not try to make things happen before the time... for I the Lord will cause this property to be sold in my time, once you let go of your agendas then you will see my hand at work.... and you shall see this as soon as you release this burden to me"

of course thats not word for word.. but it is the gist...... to make a long story short,, last week a Phillipino church walked in and paid us almost twice the market value... no questions asked.. it is SOLD.......

You see,, that message had a purpose,, that sister was under a burden of scripture and it caused perfect order... no visitor thought we were mad,, it was in perfect order

but when you walk in a church service and you have people running the isles like children... screaming and shouting in convulsions.. heads jerking, necks almost being broken in ecstatic euphoria... everybody speaking in tongues at once..... it is the very thing God is not the author of Chaos

and sadly most of the time it is a pure display of flesh
That’s cool but that didn’t answer any of my questions. Please refer to my original post to you, I had some pretty specific questions because I’m curious with how you guys do this seeing your interpretation of it.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Dr. Vaughn
Guest


 
Posts: n/a
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Forgive me grasshopper..... the post is running together and its just hard for me to pick it apart point by point.. would you mind reading the post and quickly putting a bulleted list of your questions and I will be happy to address them
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:37 PM
jezebelslayer jezebelslayer is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: southwest gulf coast
Posts: 248
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Bro...they didn't have "churches". The first church buildings in history weren't built until between 250 and 300 years later. The "church" in NT times wasn't considered a building or a place...the church was a body of people...wheresoever two or more gathered in his name...that was church. It doesn't matter if it was in Aquila's house, Nympha's house, Philemon's house, Paul's own rented quarters in Rome, under a tree, out in the field, by the riverside, hill side, or in the market place...wherever the church was gathered...that was "church".

To say that these twelve and Paul were not in "church" because they were not in a religious building or setting is to miss the most revolutionary aspect of New Testament Apostolic Christianity...it was essentially a "church without walls".

Bro Vaughn...it's impossible to argue that this was outside of the church...THEY WERE THE CHURCH.




AMEN
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-29-2008, 01:04 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
Grasshopper.. you are referring to what was allowed Pre-Pauline... God sent Paul to set the church in order... anything before that time should not be our example.. we have a perfectly laid out order by our Apostle.. the one appointed by Jesus himself to bring the church into maturity... So....... follow Peters pre-pauline example or follow the latest and more mature word on the subject from the Apostle... keep in mind Peter was an Evangelist.. he was not called to the local church as far as setting it in order.. Paul was
Paul NEVER addressed specifically what happened before that time and forbid it...
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-29-2008, 01:06 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Actually how would you know if there is no interpretation before speaking in a tongue? It says actually if there is no interpretor...a person with that gift. So of course you would have to know there is no interpretor...

Second Paul did not say don't speak in tongues in that case. He said to speak it to yourself.

We can quibble over the difference between tongues Paul speaks of and the tongues in Acts....which as far as we can see was NOT a church meeting and an interpretation for church edification but was someone receiving the Spirit for the first time
BUMP again and again for the Dr......
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-29-2008, 01:07 PM
Praxeas's Avatar
Praxeas Praxeas is offline
Go Dodgers!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,774
Re: Biblical guide for a "church service"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn View Post
Forgive me grasshopper..... the post is running together and its just hard for me to pick it apart point by point.. would you mind reading the post and quickly putting a bulleted list of your questions and I will be happy to address them
It helps if you use the quote button then separate each point by a open and close quote
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
**** Are the NCO and AWCF "raiding" the UPCI or providing a "safety net"? **** SDG The D.A.'s Office 373 02-06-2012 12:01 AM
Has "Church" become a "Family Business"?? SecretWarrior Fellowship Hall 70 06-09-2008 07:41 AM
What If Your Church Board Told You "Get In The UPC Or Leave?" rrford Fellowship Hall 86 01-31-2008 07:44 PM
My Response to "The Devolution of Government - Globally & in the Church" by the NCO Nahum Fellowship Hall 59 10-23-2007 05:03 PM
Is this a "legend" or biblical truth? Sheltiedad Fellowship Hall 17 09-22-2007 05:26 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.