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  #131  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:17 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
The reason for this thread, was because where I Pastor I’m around 60%-70% of people believe in a physical kingdom that will come to pass in the near future. Jesus will come in his physical fleshy body and oversee a physical kingdom, matter of fact if they follow all the religions law, they may even have they’re own planet and become a god over it. I give bible studies at our local jail, and one of the men brought this up, how as Jesus ascended into heaven in his physical form, that’s the way we shall be as well. We may not have blood flowing, yet as you are now you will be in heaven, yet spiritualized. I wanted to see what others thought on this matter.
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It's not a physical kingdom if it's the way it is now in the Spirit, just with us having immortal bodies. We're doing it now in bodies. They ll just be immortal then, with no sin, death or sinners.
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
We are in the kingdom now. Jesus is ruling and we are involved ruling with Him, treading on serpents and scorpions and fighting with the sword of the word of God. This is how the Kingdom will continue after the resurrection, except there will be no sin,devil, demons or sinners. And the kingdom is not going to become physical any more than it is now, with us involved having physical bodies. We wil have immortal ones at the res'urrection. And we will see Jesus in His physical immortal body, without the kingdom becoming physical.

Adam had dominion over the earth without a physical kingdom.

So, what do you mean by physical Kingdom, and why think whatever that means has to be the case if we believe Jesus will be with us in a physical body?
What is a "physical kingdom"? I asked this before in I think several threads, and never really got an answer from anybody.

I say, there is no such thing as a physical kingdom and a nonphysical kingdom, the distinction is false. EVERY kingdom is a MORAL or "spiritual kingdom" because a kingdom literally only exists in the hearts and minds of people. The only possible exception would be referring to God's rule and sovereignty over physical reality itself (nature, atoms, molecules, gravity, electromagnetic radiation, etc). But that would definitely be a PHYSICAL kingdom, and would mean God clearly DOES have a physical kingdom!

So what does everyone mean when they argue either for or against a "physical" kingdom, either of God or men? I submit nobody using those terms has really thought out the implications and impossibilities of those terms. It's like saying "a physical government", it literally makes no sense, there's no such thing, it's an oxymoron, government or kingdom rules out the term physical right off the bat except in the science of biological taxonomy.
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  #132  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:20 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
So, how can there be A Son if there is no flesh? We're the body and he is the head, like Eve was Adam's body. But Adam did not lose his personal body when his wife was called his body. And the Son is in heaven.

The sercond coming wasn't the day of Pentecost, for Paul looked for the second coming decades after the day of Pentecost.

Oneness doesn't mean there can't be two manners of God to manifest just because the number two is used. It's not two persons. The father and Son are two witnesses Jesus said. So is the use of the number two to be taken obliviously without the distinction of two persons, to say a person is not oneness?

John 5: 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Oneness is one person.


We’re going to have to realize, what was the purpose for the “Son Of God”. The God of Heaven allowed his spirit to fill an earthly vessel born of a women, to be that sacrifice, “the Lamb of God”. What the blood of bulls and goats couldn’t do, the sacrifice on the cross did. Paul wrote he Hebrew church and said “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood...” (Hebrew 9:12). The only purpose for the Man Christ Jesus was for the cross/resurrection. God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and he abides in a heavenly realm. The son of God relates to the flesh, the flesh had the purpose to die on this cross. You can’t kill a spirit, for it has not flesh and bones (Luke 24:32), the spirit allowed the flesh to be raised to life, and to appear before his disciples. Remember, (Matthew 27:46) “.... Eli, Eli, lamasabachthani? That is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The flesh began to talk, because the source of his live was departing. The Spirit of God was the driving force for that flesh, once the spirit left, you had flesh, bones, skin, blood. The spirit is what made it what it was. After the death and resurrection, what else is there to fulfill? God came in the flesh, took on a name that was hidden through the Old Testament and revealed in the New Testament, showed humanity his divinity, took all sins past, present, and future and was a spotless lamb whose blood covered all our sins. He was buried according to scripture and was resurrected the third day also according to scripture. If God’s spirit didn’t fill that VESSEL it would be nothing! To say the flesh exists today, you’ll have to believe that there are 2 gods, and that all things have not been fulfilled. You can’t separate Jesus (spirit) from the God (spirit) they were one spirit; Gods spirit, the flesh was an instrument that obtained its purpose.

Why does God have to come back again? His word was fulfilled in 70 A.D, Jerusalem (Earth) and the Temple (Heaven) was destroyed for their wickedness. And the prophecy of Jesus came to pass (Matthew 24:34) that they’re we’re indeed some that heard the words of Jesus and saw the destruction and end of the world (age). Third Epistle of John written after 70 A.D destruction (lllJohn 1:2) “....prosper, and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.” Instead of looking for a futuristic return of Jesus, we should (I’m not implying you don’t) be encountering church to reach for souls, to drive deeper into the spirit of God, be not yoked with this world, separate yourself with the spirits of this world, etc.. Please understand, I’m only going to say the following from what I have seen, I’m not saying this is everyone. The futuristic message births a spirit of complacency, fear, doubt. People ask me “why are so many leaving the church, young especially” look at what these young people have been fed the past 1-30 years, has it been what Paul declared in (l Corinthians 2:4) “And my speech, and my preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of Power.” We had enough enticing words, mans wisdom, we need the spirit and power.
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  #133  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:31 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post

We’re going to have to realize, what was the purpose for the “Son Of God”. The God of Heaven allowed his spirit to fill an earthly vessel born of a women, to be that sacrifice, “the Lamb of God”. What the blood of bulls and goats couldn’t do, the sacrifice on the cross did. Paul wrote he Hebrew church and said “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood...” (Hebrew 9:12). The only purpose for the Man Christ Jesus was for the cross/resurrection. God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and he abides in a heavenly realm. The son of God relates to the flesh, the flesh had the purpose to die on this cross. You can’t kill a spirit, for it has not flesh and bones (Luke 24:32), the spirit allowed the flesh to be raised to life, and to appear before his disciples. Remember, (Matthew 27:46) “.... Eli, Eli, lamasabachthani? That is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” The flesh began to talk, because the source of his live was departing. The Spirit of God was the driving force for that flesh, once the spirit left, you had flesh, bones, skin, blood. The spirit is what made it what it was. After the death and resurrection, what else is there to fulfill? God came in the flesh, took on a name that was hidden through the Old Testament and revealed in the New Testament, showed humanity his divinity, took all sins past, present, and future and was a spotless lamb whose blood covered all our sins. He was buried according to scripture and was resurrected the third day also according to scripture. If God’s spirit didn’t fill that VESSEL it would be nothing! To say the flesh exists today, you’ll have to believe that there are 2 gods, and that all things have not been fulfilled. You can’t separate Jesus (spirit) from the God (spirit) they were one spirit; Gods spirit, the flesh was an instrument that obtained its purpose.

Why does God have to come back again? His word was fulfilled in 70 A.D, Jerusalem (Earth) and the Temple (Heaven) was destroyed for their wickedness. And the prophecy of Jesus came to pass (Matthew 24:34) that they’re we’re indeed some that heard the words of Jesus and saw the destruction and end of the world (age). Third Epistle of John written after 70 A.D destruction (lllJohn 1:2) “....prosper, and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.” Instead of looking for a futuristic return of Jesus, we should (I’m not implying you don’t) be encountering church to reach for souls, to drive deeper into the spirit of God, be not yoked with this world, separate yourself with the spirits of this world, etc.. Please understand, I’m only going to say the following from what I have seen, I’m not saying this is everyone. The futuristic message births a spirit of complacency, fear, doubt. People ask me “why are so many leaving the church, young especially” look at what these young people have been fed the past 1-30 years, has it been what Paul declared in (l Corinthians 2:4) “And my speech, and my preaching was not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of Power.” We had enough enticing words, mans wisdom, we need the spirit and power.
Perhaps you could actually address the Scriptures that have been presented to you instead of shifting the conversation to other things or just repeating your claims without showing the actual Scriptural proof of them? "To say the flesh exists today you have to say there are two gods" is pure poppycock. Otherwise there were two gods when Jesus walked the earth.
When you constantly throw out statements like these it just looks like you are avoiding the Scriptures that were presented to you, that you are just sticking your fingers in your ears refusing to face the fact your theory is completely unbiblical. I'm not trying to be rude but you really have just been dancing around the key points in this thread. All these pages and you haven't given chapter and verse that says Jesus lost His body at the ascension or that He is no longer human.

John 8:35 says the Son abides forever, Psalm 110:4 says Christ is to be a PRIEST FOREVER according the order of Melchizedek.
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  #134  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:36 PM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

If one topic at a time was discussed... agh... this thread is making me dizzy.

Back to the jewtubes.
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  #135  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:57 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Perhaps you could actually address the Scriptures that have been presented to you instead of shifting the conversation to other things or just repeating your claims without showing the actual Scriptural proof of them? "To say the flesh exists today you have to say there are two gods" is pure poppycock. Otherwise there were two gods when Jesus walked the earth.
When you constantly throw out statements like these it just looks like you are avoiding the Scriptures that were presented to you, that you are just sticking your fingers in your ears refusing to face the fact your theory is completely unbiblical. I'm not trying to be rude but you really have just been dancing around the key points in this thread. All these pages and you haven't given chapter and verse that says Jesus lost His body at the ascension or that He is no longer human.

John 8:35 says the Son abides forever, Psalm 110:4 says Christ is to be a PRIEST FOREVER according the order of Melchizedek.


Esaias,
I have given you scripture, please read all my posts in this thread. You ask “give me scripture that says there is no fleshy body of the human form of Jesus”, I’m sorry I can’t. If I ask you to give me a scripture that says, the physical, natural body of Jesus is in Heaven? You through this body are separating one into two, you use (John 8:35), to prove what Jesus the son (human form) abides forever, where is God in the spirit or should I ask what is Jesus in the spirit realm? You quote (lCorinthians 15) as well as I do, but is that for Jesus, or is that for us. Remember, we desire the resurrection, he IS the resurrection (John 11:25). We need a body, you desire that as a sinner desires the Holy Ghost, why do you need this body, because if there is no body, that means.....

Flesh and Spirit are warring against each other, we understand that, the body of God is not a trophy, it was a vessel that’s all, sorry I don’t have scripture for that, you should have enough understand to believe that, our bodies are not trophies, the spirit within us is a trophy. Our spirits in the heavenly realm will not be our bodies on earth, they’re going to be something totally different, the seed looks NOTHING like the plant.
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  #136  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:59 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by diakonos View Post
If one topic at a time was discussed... agh... this thread is making me dizzy.

Back to the jewtubes.
This what happens when men have an agenda and seek not after the spirit but after the physical.

Not sure what Jewtubes are.
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  #137  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:22 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Flesh (depending on the context), flesh and bone (very common expression also in the Old Testament), flesh and blood, are all idioms. You can't think of them as telling you something hidden or scientifically literal to the modern reader.

The word natural in 1 Cor 15:44 is also translated as "sensual" in other contexts. It is referring to the current human body with its sensual desires. In the resurrection we won't be struggling with sensuality:
Mat 22:30 KJV - For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

I don't see how Paul is referring to "natural" or "flesh and blood" contrasting with "spiritual" from the scientific standpoint of biology or physics. It can only mean that in our current rationale/scientific-brain-washed minds. That contrast simply talks about the sensuality, dominance of carnal instincts, etc..., we struggle with vs the free from all those things and lead by the spirit bodies we will have. They are both physicals, but one sensual, glutton, savage, greedy, and the other one free from the intrinsic natural desires that make you commit those sins to begin with, e.g. the desire to procreate.
You have to trust God with the details regarding how it will actually be.
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  #138  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

Nicodemus, you are spitting in the wind with E and MB. They must have the literal body of Jesus up in Heaven so that they can satisfy the dispees.

I guess.
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  #139  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:30 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Nicodemus, you are spitting in the wind with E and MB. They must have the literal body of Jesus up in Heaven so that they can satisfy the dispees.

I guess.
Stop it!
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  #140  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: Glorified Flesh?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 View Post
This what happens when men have an agenda and seek not after the spirit but after the physical.

Not sure what Jewtubes are.
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