Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Search For Similiar Threads Using Key Words & Phrases
baptism, baptized, holy spirit, salvation

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 03-07-2014, 08:32 AM
obriencp obriencp is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 441
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
The most important conclusion that can be drawn from Acts 19:1-2 regarding our doctrine is that repentance and believing are not synonymous with being filled with the Holy Ghost. 1. They hadn't even heard that there was a Holy Ghost--even though they had repented and were believers, and 2. In spite of the fact that they had repented and believed, Paul prayed for them and the Holy Ghost they hadn't yet heard of or experienced "came on them" and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. It was definitely a separate experience from repentance and believing.
This is why some believe that there is a separation/difference between salvation at repentance and believing and a later empowering of the the Holy Ghost, IE tongues as an external manifistation.

One could also read this as they hadn't heard of the empowerment of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul never stated they weren't saved. He did however pray for them that they too could receive a greater blessing that had been experienced by others.

Most OPs cannot separate tongues from salvation, or water from salvation. If you separate tongues from salvation, it's not so hard to see how one could be saved long before they ever speak in tongues. Acts traces the spread of the church and outpouring of the Holy Ghost. The experience of tongues was to prove to the apostles that God was not a respector of persons and that all could be saved under this new covenant.

On a separate note... we love to throw out verses that connect baptism to salvation. How many more verses connect believing/faith to salvation or having life? Now i expect people to counter this with James ch 2 to bolster the claim that faith and repentance alone cannot bring salvation.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-07-2014, 08:40 AM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Exactly. I have rarely seen a promise that didn't have an "if" to go with it. There are conditional promises in the Bible. Nothing is free in life.
Were they disciples, in Acts 19:1?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-07-2014, 09:51 AM
Pressing-On's Avatar
Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
Not riding the train


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 47,482
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Were they disciples, in Acts 19:1?
Yes, they were disciples, i.e., "learners"; "pupils" as the early church was being established.

We don't exclude anyone in our congregation knowing they have not received the Holy Ghost, but we certainly don't teach that it is not necessary for salvation and only an empowerment. It is both as you cannot dismiss Romans 8:9. And as there is no supportive scripture that the Holy Ghost is evidenced by anything other than speaking in tongues (Acts 2:33), I take Romans 8:9 very seriously, as seriously as I do repentance and baptism.

And finding certain disciples - Certain persons who had been baptized into Johnís baptism, and who had embraced Johnís doctrine that the Messiah was soon to appear, Acts . Act_19:3-4. It is very clear that they had not yet heard that he had come, or that the Holy Spirit was given. They were evidently in the same situation as Apollos. See the notes on Act_18:25. - Barnes

finding certain disciples ó in the same stage of Christian knowledge as Apollos at first, newly arrived, probably, and having had no communication as yet with the church at Ephesus. - JFB
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:31 AM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: Is This True?

lol
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:54 AM
Pressing-On's Avatar
Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
Not riding the train


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 47,482
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
lol
You are laughing because you think that simply by calling someone a Disciple they are saved? We are not saved until the end.

I John 2:24-27 speaks of Him that abides in us, the anointing that abides in us must remain as with it, it is the promise He has given which gives us eternal life.

We know it (the Holy Spirit of promise) as the "earnest of our inheritance". Ephesians 1:13-14
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-07-2014, 11:01 AM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
You are laughing because you think that simply by calling someone a Disciple they are saved? We are not saved until the end.

I John 2:24-27 speaks of Him that abides in us, the anointing that abides in us must remain as with it, it is the promise He has given which gives us eternal life.

We know it (the Holy Spirit of promise) as the "earnest of our inheritance". Ephesians 1:13-14
So, you're not saved?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-07-2014, 11:10 AM
Pressing-On's Avatar
Pressing-On Pressing-On is offline
Not riding the train


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 47,482
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
So, you're not saved?
I believe that if God came back today I am saved. But, will I be in 10 years? I hope so, but what if I become weary in well doing? I have been there before and God helped me through it. I know what it feels like to think you don't care anymore. And I know what all is involved in getting back on your feet again. You sure don't forget that process in a hurry.

We are instructed to remain "diligent/make an effort" (2 Peter 3:14)

I don't believe in once saved, always saved.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:03 PM
TyronePalmer's Avatar
TyronePalmer TyronePalmer is offline
OneLordOneFaithOneBaptism


 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Gurnee, IL
Posts: 137
Re: Is This True?

Great understanding, explanation, and defense of the faith Pressing-On! My soul is encouraged, may God bless you and your family in these last days.
__________________
Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:29 PM
RJR RJR is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 301
Re: Is This True?

Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
This is why some believe that there is a separation/difference between salvation at repentance and believing and a later empowering of the the Holy Ghost, IE tongues as an external manifistation.
I can show you where Cornelius was devout, prayed always, fasted, was charitable, saw an angel in a vision who knew and spoke his name, and still was not saved. Acts 11:14-17. The only difference between the early verses of Acts 10 and the later verses of Acts 10 was Cornelius received the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and was baptized in Jesus name.


Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
One could also read this as they hadn't heard of the empowerment of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul never stated they weren't saved. He did however pray for them that they too could receive a greater blessing that had been experienced by others.
Neither did he say they were saved. He knew that if they had believed on Him as the scripture hath said, out of their bellies SHALL flow rivers of living water, this was spoken of the Spirit. St John 7:38-39. In other words, if they believed as the scripture teaches they should have received the Holy Ghost, which was indeed his question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
Most OPs cannot separate tongues from salvation, or water from salvation. If you separate tongues from salvation, it's not so hard to see how one could be saved long before they ever speak in tongues. Acts traces the spread of the church and outpouring of the Holy Ghost. The experience of tongues was to prove to the apostles that God was not a respector of persons and that all could be saved under this new covenant.
You do not believe that everyone that is born of the spirit has an accompanying sound? Acts 2:4, Acts 2:33, St John 3:8, Acts 10:46?

Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp View Post
On a separate note... we love to throw out verses that connect baptism to salvation. How many more verses connect believing/faith to salvation or having life? Now i expect people to counter this with James ch 2 to bolster the claim that faith and repentance alone cannot bring salvation.
The facts are, that Bible believing or Bible faith is not mere acknowledgment or assent, faith produces action. Believeth and is baptized Mark 16:16, cometh to God must believe that he is and is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY SEEK Him Heb 11:6, believing is obedience Rom 10:17, faith without works is dead being alone, as the body without the spirit is dead faith without works is dead also, James 2.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-07-2014, 01:07 PM
justlookin justlookin is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 413
Re: Is This True?

It's so simple. A direct question was asked in the bible and a direct answer was given.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now folks want to complicate it by you have to blah blah blah and then you have to blah blah blah blah and then you might be saved.

What must I do to be saved? (See answer above) And forget about a lot of jumping through the hoops of the hundreds of salvation plans out there.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
is this true? Sister Alvear Fellowship Hall 1 05-30-2011 09:09 AM
is this true? Sister Alvear Fellowship Hall 10 04-07-2011 11:35 PM
Is this true? jfrog Fellowship Hall 11 03-17-2011 11:31 AM
Is This True? DanielR Fellowship Hall 4 05-05-2008 11:48 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.