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  #51  
Old 05-21-2018, 06:30 PM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Listen to your pastor!
Why do you keep telling him that?
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  #52  
Old 05-22-2018, 02:53 AM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

Every situation calls for it's own response. Not all responses, therefore, are valid, in all situations.

Out in public, Jesus says "Go tell that fox..." speaking of King Herod.

In front of King Herod, Jesus doesn't utter a word.

Why didn't Jesus go off on Herod in Herod's presence, when He was willing to go off on Him in public?

I don't know the answer to that yet. Maybe never will. But, it does show that in His wisdom and directives from the Father, there was a time to respond one way in one situation, and there was a time to respond another way in a different situation.
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  #53  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:04 AM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

Of all the potentially hurtful or seemingly mean things a preacher might say, "God hath made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" ranks up there pretty high.

But Simon Peter pushed through to this climax with tremendous results, because that was the way the Holy Spirit wanted him to preach. Imagine, surrounded by a potentially very hostile crowd, who knew he and his friends were Galileans, just like Jesus was, and most there were probably still there from Passover when Jesus was crucified, and they were probably okay with that happening, and Simon Peter wades right into them like a lion and lets them have it full scale warfare.

And instead of being torn limb from limb by the mob, it's "And they were pricked in their hearts and said Men and brethren, what shall we do?". Pricked in their hearts is a word picture meaning it was like Simon's words had run them through as if with a sword.

Sometimes the preacher has to mortally wound his audience before He can preach the means whereby the wounded can be saved.

My pastor from years back was the harshest preacher against sin I've ever heard. He didn't mince words and it could seem like his voice fell like a hammer upon the heart.

But for the sinner who rushed the altar afterward, he was the first one there down on his knees with them, praying in love and compassion for God to grant them repentance and give them faith to receive the Holy Spirit. And a lot of people did. A LOT.

In fact, the number of people who got offended and stormed off versus the number of people who God saved wasn't even close. And here I am, with my entire family, mom, dad, stepdad, brothers, inlaws, nieces and nephews, a cousin, and my late grandma, all saved and bound for glory, because this take-no-prisoner funny looking 5'4" Norwegian North Dakotan came to WI and started evangelizing in my middle of nowhere cow-town hometown.
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  #54  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:10 AM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

Now, for a counter-point.

I worked with an openly-gay, somewhat effeminate homesexual man, who I trained on the job and got to know. He knew about my Christianity and there was no conflict between us. I wanted to learn from him, get an insight into the mind of what makes a homosexual tick, so I could learn to become a better minister. One morning after the shift was over, he stayed with me in the breakroom from two hours pouring out his heart to me, often in tears, confessing to me that I was the only person in the world he felt like he could trust to admit that he actually really did believe in God when everyone else believed he didn't, because it was too hard for him to be what he was and admit to believing in God at the same time.

I mean, dude was straight up bawling, and God gave a wonder opportunity to minister to him. Had I come strong, preaching hard, that would have never happened.

Each situation calls for it's own response.
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  #55  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:16 AM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

A counter-point to my counter-point:

My cousin, a different one then I mentioned above, was over at my mom's house, in a rant about how he didn't need to believe what my mom was trying to share with him, that he could go on sinning/intentionally living a life of sin, and be forgiven because he was a believer (a Lutheran, a product of the "sin boldly" doctrine).

I listened for the better part of an hour as he went on, and I realized for whatever reason no one had the guts to pull the trigger on him, so I told him to his face that Jesus was going to take flaming fire of vengeance upon him for not obeying the Gospel and punish him with everlasting destruction.

You never saw someone storm off so fast right out the house. But then we prayed for him, and God gave someone a word to go and speak to him.

In this instance, dude had already jumped off the cliff and thought he was going to land in the sweet by and by, and the only way to save him was to stop beating around the bush and make him afraid of the doom he had rushed into. Because there was no fear of God in him, fear of God was needed to reach him.
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  #56  
Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
Now, for a counter-point.

I worked with an openly-gay, somewhat effeminate homesexual man, who I trained on the job and got to know. He knew about my Christianity and there was no conflict between us. I wanted to learn from him, get an insight into the mind of what makes a homosexual tick, so I could learn to become a better minister. One morning after the shift was over, he stayed with me in the breakroom from two hours pouring out his heart to me, often in tears, confessing to me that I was the only person in the world he felt like he could trust to admit that he actually really did believe in God when everyone else believed he didn't, because it was too hard for him to be what he was and admit to believing in God at the same time.

I mean, dude was straight up bawling, and God gave a wonder opportunity to minister to him. Had I come strong, preaching hard, that would have never happened.

Each situation calls for it's own response.
Great post. It reminded me that in our humanity we tend to abhor some sin more than others and therefore have more problems with some sinners than others.

For many people, including myself, there is a revulsion to an effeminate acting man that is hard to not show. However if we are to hate sin but love the sinners we have to ask God for help in showing those sinners love and treat them in a way that barriers will come down and we can minister to them.
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #57  
Old Yesterday, 11:38 PM
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Re: Time for some more Elder Westberg!

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Great post. It reminded me that in our humanity we tend to abhor some sin more than others and therefore have more problems with some sinners than others.

For many people, including myself, there is a revulsion to an effeminate acting man that is hard to not show. However if we are to hate sin but love the sinners we have to ask God for help in showing those sinners love and treat them in a way that barriers will come down and we can minister to them.

The tragically hilarious point is that not every gay man is effeminate and not every gay woman has a buzz cut and wears flannel...we call ourselves spiritually discerning...but if we are so discerning how come we target only "low hanging fruit?"
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