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View Poll Results: Do you believe in sinless perfection?
Yes we can cease from sin. 9 90.00%
No one will always be prone to sin. 1 10.00%
We all sin everyday. 0 0%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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  #271  
Old Yesterday, 02:44 AM
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Receiving revelation and insight into the mind of Christ is so important, not just for understanding the Bible so you can exegete, teach or preach, but so that you can understand reality, otherwise called "truth".

Now, there are such things as I might call mundane or secular truth, that is 2 + 2 = 4, and such like, which are very important and necessary to human life to understand, but there is also sacred or spiritual truth, which are even more important, because even someone not versed in say Newtonian physics can still put on the mind of Christ.

And here is the mind of Christ on the matter:

He was the sacrificial lamb of God, that was slain. That sacrifice was more than just simply dying. Dying was the culmination. The hard part was living a life of perfect submissive obedience to the will of God every day of His life for years on end, regardless of the temptations and chances to do otherwise.

So, here we have Jesus, alive and well, at the right hand of the Father, present within the believer through the Holy Spirit, and He, knowing full well the cost and agony of taking our place, so that our sin debt can be cancelled and remitted, so that, by becoming sin for us, we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

Think about that for awhile. This transaction of sin debt accounted to the Son of God, wherein our guilt and damnation was transferred away from us and carried over onto the Messiah, took place on the cross, and it was finished, brought to a close. The deal was done. God successfully rescinded the death sentence His holy and just wrath against sin demanded He place upon the human race, and issued it forth upon our Master.

Now, we are the righteousness of God in Christ. Our adoption as sons has made it so. And what is God's righteousness but pure, perfect, sinless holiness? You gotta get this! The identifier "sinner" is an imputed state of being, just the same as "saint" is.

You are not a sinful saint, or a saintly sinner. They are mutually exclusive terms. Our saintliness, which is to say, our holiness, is Christ's holiness, and He was without sin.

But you say, I still err, I fail God, I make immoral decisions, I must therefore be a sinner, without any form of holiness or Godliness in my life!

But that's not how it works. If you can see yourself through God's eyes, you wouldn't look at it like that. You'd see the redemption wrought in you, the image of Christ formed in you, the reflection of the Father's glory beaming off of you, and the blood of Jesus cleansing you.

Think of it this way. When you united with the Lord Jesus through the Spirit, between you and Him, which of you is all-powerful? Which of you is majestic and worthy of praise? Who's leading the dance, so to speak? Who is the head and who is the church? You've got to realize when God looks at you in truth, that is, in full spiritual reality of the way things actually are, from His point of view, while He loves you and cares for you individually, when He looks at you, it's not you He sees. He sees Himself, because you are the image-bearer of God, which once was lost, but now is found. As Michael pointed out, all things have become new. That includes you, too. You are new. Everything old about you has passed away, from God's point of view. Most of intercessory prayer and fasting and long sessions of suffering and struggle is simply the process whereby you shed yourself of your "self", and Christ is formed in you through the Holy Spirit.

It's a remolding process. Your clay was marred by sin, but God is working it out. You aren't being rejected as reprobate, until you denounce Christ and apostatize from the faith once delivered to the saints. It's only then that you are rejected as a vessel meet for the Master's use. But as long as you are submissive to the Potter's Hand, even when He finds fault in the clay, the finding of the fault is not there to discourage you and make you think you're still a hopeless sinner. The finding of the fault in your clay occurs so He can mash you back onto the Wheel and remake you the way He sees fit.

He gives beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, and the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness, or, in other words, He wants you to give Him the worst parts of yourself as the acceptable sacrifice, that as it reads in Psalm 51, He will not despise.

When you are broken, the only sacrifice God will accept from you is your brokenness. But you've got to really hand it over to Him so He can take what has been broken, and fix it, heal it, make it better, taking the ashes of your past and making out of them a work of art.

So, in the face of that, how are you going to continue telling Jesus you're just a rotten sinner, when He became sin for you so you could become the righteousness of God?

Don't you dare do it! Don't you dare sully His sacrifice with such whining and pining. Yes, you WERE unworthy of that sacrifice. But His sacrifice was offered to make you, who were not worthy of it, WORTHY of it. Christ's voluntary atonement was an act of worship toward the Father. To reduce that in any way diminishes the cross, and the cross is most powerful, wonderful, miraculous, undiminished, limitless, amazing, tremendous thing that has ever happened in the entire history of the universe, even more so than when God created everything. Because it was at the cross that God re-created everything, and took all that sin and satan had reduced into chaos and despair, and made it glorious.

And that glory includes you. That's why you're going to be glorified at the end of your life moving into eternity. It's because from God's point of view, it's already happened. Just stay on board with His plan for your life. Let the Master's hand ever rest upon your heart and mind, and He will guide you always, and heaven will be just a matter of course. The panic is over. The crisis has been averted. Grace has come. And GOD HAS WON.
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Last edited by votivesoul; Yesterday at 02:48 AM.
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  #272  
Old Yesterday, 05:23 AM
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Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
That is true on one hand and not true on another. None of us are saved in the full sense. Pastor Shearer told me this the first time I ytalked to him in 1974 so you should know this. The other hand is no one is saved until they endure to the end.

We serve God by grace. And yet our faith plays a big role in where we will finally end up. Perhaps a thread on "final salvation" is in order.
Amen.

But try to keep in mind how something can be true in one sense and not another.

In a very real sense, we receive imputed sinlessness, justified, by faith, not works as it relates to the inner man. Yet, we are being sanctified, as we learn to walk in the Spirit and live holy, while in this fallen, corruptible, flesh in another.
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  #273  
Old Yesterday, 05:24 AM
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Why does he keep quoting his pastor. Someone quote Brahman, quick.
It's been a while since I've read the Upanishads. Lol
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"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." ~ Galatians 5:14
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  #274  
Old Yesterday, 06:55 AM
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGlen View Post
Rom. 7:15 and verses following, is not Paul admitting to (post Spiritual birth) unwillful sin?
In Romans 7, Paul is describing a believer who is living in the flesh and not walking after the Spirit. Yes, the flesh has all kinds of unseemly carnal desires and cravings that come natural to it. When a believer is not walking in the Spirit he or she will encounter this law in their members. And so, they will encounter a struggle, or battle, they cannot win. For the good, obedient, and holy life that they desire to live, they fail at it. And the sinful and vile life that they do not desire to lead, that they do! It is indeed "sin that dwelling in me", that is, in one's flesh, one's fallen and carnal nature, that is the origin for every sinful impulse. This doesn't release one of an responsibility for their sin. Because it is indeed a part of them that is fallen, sinful, and debased in its cravings and desires. They will answer for such sin should they live in it. In essence, in Romans 7, Paul is only describing the PROBLEM, the battle, that we face... not what is intended to be the life of a believer.

As I said above, Romans 7 is Paul's description of the problem. In Romans 8 Paul gets into the SOLUTION.
Romans 8:1-14
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God
.
There is no condemnation for the saint of God who walks after the Spirit. The very righteousness of the law (not the law itself) is fulfilled in the believer who walks after the Spirit. To walk after the Spirit means to live a life that is sensitive and obedient to the Holy Spirit's leading, as it guides us into more and more Christlike living. This process is sanctification. Those who live in the flesh are carnally minded. They mind the things of the flesh. They are led captive by the desires of the flesh and their carnal minds seek to fulfill the desires of the flesh. The carnal mind is not subject to God, and will lead to spiritual death. And so, those who live in the flesh cannot please God...no matter how much they might desire to. Because when the desires of the flesh arise, the carnal mind takes over and seeks to please the flesh.

If one wishes to overcome this condition, one must walk after the Spirit, seeking to put on the mind of Christ Jesus. One must see themselves as a living tabernacle of Jesus Himself, allowing themselves to surrender to the reality of that identity and allow themselves to be led by the Holy Spirit's promptings and desires. This will bring joy, happiness, and a sense of victory to one's Christian life.
Exercise:

I was taught that fasting is a means by which we can exercise and experience our spiritual authority over the flesh. This is done by denying the flesh its most essential and common craving, food. Through fasting one learns how to overcome the desires of the flesh through the mind of Christ and walk after the Spirit. If you can train yourself to deny your body food, you can train yourself to deny the flesh any other carnal desire.
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"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." ~ Galatians 5:14
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  #275  
Old Yesterday, 10:51 PM
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Re: Sinless Perfection

I was contemplating sanctification and ontological Holiness as it relates to our partaking in the divine nature today and this analogy came to me while in the Spirit.

The abiding presence of the Holy Spirit allows us to partake in God's divine nature, making us new creatures. This was given to us entirely by grace when we were born again. It is this divine nature that provides our ontological holiness. Our sanctification is a process.

When we compare an piece of coal and a diamond, the coal looks dirty and rough around the edges. Yet the diamond looks beautiful and radiant. This is due to the stage of their development. Given enough time and pressure, the coal will become a diamond. But, by nature both are carbon based composites.

Sometimes, saints seem dirty and rough around the edges in their walk with Christ, while other saints are beautiful and radiant in their Christian living. This is because they are at different stages of their sanctification. But as it relates to their inner nature, they are both holy.
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  #276  
Old Today, 04:39 AM
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I was contemplating sanctification and ontological Holiness as it relates to our partaking in the divine nature today and this analogy came to me while in the Spirit.

The abiding presence of the Holy Spirit allows us to partake in God's divine nature, making us new creatures. This was given to us entirely by grace when we were born again. It is this divine nature that provides our ontological holiness. Our sanctification is a process.

When we compare an piece of coal and a diamond, the coal looks dirty and rough around the edges. Yet the diamond looks beautiful and radiant. This is due to the stage of their development. Given enough time and pressure, the coal will become a diamond. But, by nature both are carbon based composites.

Sometimes, saints seem dirty and rough around the edges in their walk with Christ, while other saints are beautiful and radiant in their Christian living. This is because they are at different stages of their sanctification. But as it relates to their inner nature, they are both holy.
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1 Thessalonians 4:18 - the trump sounds the dead in Christ are raised.
1 Corinthians 15:52- we are raised and changed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 - the wicked one is destroyed as Jesus returns.
Revelation 20:5- this is the first resurrection.
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  #277  
Old Today, 05:32 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Sinless Perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I was contemplating sanctification and ontological Holiness as it relates to our partaking in the divine nature today and this analogy came to me while in the Spirit.

The abiding presence of the Holy Spirit allows us to partake in God's divine nature, making us new creatures. This was given to us entirely by grace when we were born again. It is this divine nature that provides our ontological holiness. Our sanctification is a process.

When we compare an piece of coal and a diamond, the coal looks dirty and rough around the edges. Yet the diamond looks beautiful and radiant. This is due to the stage of their development. Given enough time and pressure, the coal will become a diamond. But, by nature both are carbon based composites.

Sometimes, saints seem dirty and rough around the edges in their walk with Christ, while other saints are beautiful and radiant in their Christian living. This is because they are at different stages of their sanctification. But as it relates to their inner nature, they are both holy.
Sorry, but that isnít what Jesus taught. Outwardly they appear beautiful but inside they are wolves. The old Pentecostal song goes Jesus on the inside working on the outside. Oh, what a CHANGE in my heart. If you donít have these things I suggest you ask Jesus to give them to you and help in your walk. Plain and simple. The struggle is over when Jesus comes in to be your master and guide. People end up struggling post conversion simply because they try to inject their will into Godís will. It canít be. You can try to wrest the word to fit your agenda, even mislead others to make yourself feel better while you practice sin. But in the end you lose. Jesus told two individuals to go sin no more. Not try to sin less. He even told one He healed that if he sinned even something worse would happen to him. We are to walk in the light as Jesus is in the light and be no more in darkness.
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