Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
I don't know were I'm wrong at all on this. Forget calling it a tithe, the question is, will a christian give more than 10% of his energy and resources to a God that he loves. I am not commanding 10%, but I am saying that for someone who loves the Lord they are going to overall exceed 10%. They will give sometimes until it hurts and it is not going to always be money. You may say that is not tithing and I will agree. It exceeds tithing.
|
I can tell that you have good intentions, and that you are sincere, however . . . Some people who love the Lord are going to require
HELP FROM the church. Therefore their contribution would be
much less than ten percent, and this is
entirely biblical. Then you have the situation of the pastor that takes the tithe from the church. Even if he tithes his net giving will be negative. What about him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
1. I have learned alot here on AFF and also many antitithe teachers, but 2. I found that tithing is not something we do, but it is something we are. The Church is kind of like a tithe in itself to the Lord we belong to God we are his portion. 3. We are not simply to tithe, but we are to 100% give all to God.
|
1.Firstly, isn't it ironic that you are learning a lot on AFF? Instead of from the Bible? . . . Or from preachers? Secondly, I don't really consider myself an anti-tithe teacher. I know some will find this amusing, however I consider myself to be a teacher of the truth on tithing. There is a difference.
2. I am interested in how you can possibly support this with scripture.
3. Ditto. Explain your reasoning to me for this statement. Please don't think that I'm trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to understand how you think. Taken literally, this would mean that we would donate ALL of our paycheck to the church. Please clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
1. Where does the Bible say not to tithe? I have not found one scripture that made me feel like I shouldn't tithe.2. It was people that made me rethink my position on tithes. I used to just assume that aside from the first givers in Jerusalem, the early church just tithed. When I was asked to find a NT scripture of early church tithing, I found none. 3. Instead, I see NT people selling all and laying it at the apostles feet. So instead, of people saying I don't have to give 10%, they should be saying that I can't get by with just giving 10%.
|
1. The Bible does not say not to tithe. It does say to tithe, and it is very specific about what to tithe and what is to be done with the tithe. Some preachers (okay most, nearly all even) want to change what God said to tithe, and what the tithe is to be used for, and who is the recipient of the tithe, that is where the problems begin. Have you watched the Greg Riggen video? Some preachers want to send us to hell for NOT tithing, and can be very creative about manipulating scriptures to do so.
2. There is something fundamentally wrong with a doctrine that causes most people to believe something that is not true. Why do you think they believe this way? Who should be responsible for correcting false doctrine? Should it be the pastor? He is too busy trying to shore up the false doctrine with more twisted scripture and tradition of men (typically).
3. The money that was laid at the feet of the apostles was to be used for what? Was it for the pastor only? Here is the context.
Bible, King James Version
Acts.4 Verses 32 to 35
[32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
[33] And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
[34] Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
[35] And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Every one that had need was distributed to. This is a little different from the tithe, right? No, it is VERY different from the tithe!
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
1. Painting with a broad brush there. 2. Tithing has been a part of church culture for so long, it is hard for some to wrap their head around that it is not a NT statute. Many of the apostolic churches I grew up at, the pastor may have not have had a 6th grade education. He couldn't pronounce the words right, but he knew what Jesus did for him.3. Tithing was what he was taught and tithing was what he preached. It was not meant to be untruthful at all. 4. I find that we are gettting far more Biblical literate, but far less consecrated unto the Lord.
|
1. Painting with a broad brush is sometimes appropriate. Have you ever tried painting a barn door with a sharpie?
2. Probably not as long as you believe, if you are referring to tithing money. However, I understand your point, it just doesn't make it any more right.
3. I understand. My question is, why? If we agree that the version of tithing is not biblical, why is it still taught? And how did we get to this point of believing doctrine that is false? And what are we going to do about it? Send people to hell?
4. You may be right about this, however the idea that more knowledge leads to less consecration is a faulty premise. Does "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" ring a bell? We should certainly not promote false doctrine on the premise that it leads to a less consecrated walk with God, because I'm certain that is NOT the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
It is dishonest to preach something you don't agree with . If a person thinks it is wrong to teach tithing he shouldn't. Most tithers believe that tithing is a bigger principle than just OT law. Again, I agree that tithing is not mandated to anyone outside of mosaic law and there is explicit directions regarding it. I still believe people can be hermenuetically incorrect and still be right by God in their motivation.
|
I agree with a lot of this, however in reference to the statement in bold above, wouldn't it be best to believe what is true and biblical and commanded by God, as opposed to something that man has come up with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
It is sad to see ministers fleecing the flock. I am not an anti-tither but I love my brother and sister in the Lord. When they are down I want to help them up and not try to add insult to their injury.
|
I agree with this and I really appreciate your concern for the sheep. I am not asking that you become an anti-tither, I would much rather that you become a teacher of truth concerning tithes. Somebody needs to tell the truth.
If it is not you, then whom will it be?
If not now, then when?
Please do not think that I am being condescending. I appreciate your honest heart and your willingness to accept truth when it is presented with supporting scripture. I rejoice with you that you have overcome alcoholism and I appreciate your testimony.
May God richly bless you, (I'm sure he has, and does, and will).
Linear Mode
