PEAK first WPF Youth Conference

[Whole Hearted]

[QUOTE=Michael Phelps;574235][QUOTE=Whole Hearted;574224]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Duly noted, WH. Hate is probably a strong word, but it's no secret that you think UPC youth camps are too worldly, etc. - by your own admission you send your kids to other camps.

So, let's say - strong dislike for UPC practices. Hate is a strong word, and I'll concede that point.

Dislike is much more accurate, not people but things that are going on. But let it be know there are good people still in and we support their functions and event. We do not support those who are doing the smoke and mirrors stuff.

[Michael Phelps]

[QUOTE=Whole Hearted;574241][QUOTE=Michael Phelps;574235]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Dislike is much more accurate, not people but things that are going on. But let it be know there are good people still in and we support their functions and event. We do not support those who are doing the smoke and mirrors stuff.

Again, duly noted. Thanks for clarifying.

[RandyWayne]

I personally cannot stand fog machines and strobe lights myself during the course of a "normal" service. Granted, I think they may have their uses during specific drama-type events, but DO hate them during regular song services.

As a DJ I never used strobe lights and stopped using fog machines when they started setting off every single fire alarm.

[Sister Alvear]

Randy, that is my thoughts...for drama and special presentations they are ok. Now I would not want them in every service...would get old after while. I think for a play, a skit things like that are exciting for the young people.
Balance would be the key...I personally had rather see lights than politicans on a platform!

[Sister Alvear]

Please take no offense but I am of the opinion God and politics don´t mix...

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by revrandy

This whole premise of calling lights....fog...and other sundry items is almost laughable....

I have been in one of the church's of the leadership/pioneer of the WPF...they use the Stick Ministry...Deaf Praise and Drama...and video....with lights...Fog....and everything else.....just like the other churches....

I don't see you criticizing them????

The point is you are either echoing somebody's pulpit or just a complainer.... either of the two would probably fit....

I for one am glad they had a tremendous time in Tulsa.... that is great.....

I am also glad for churches who use unorthodox methods to win other young people to the Lord...and give their young people a chance to express themselves!!....

Some of you guys should preach overseas on the Islands and watch the Kids dance and worship with their whistles.... and come in the sanctuary... it is absolutely beautiful...but I know if you stayed any length of time they would come to know HOW undodly they are and buy a suit, put on a tie so they could fit in....

I see nothing wrong with worshipping God with whisltes.

Don't have to have a suit and tie to be saved or stay saved.

Me personally, I'm ok with cultural dress as long as it is modest and as long as there is a distinction b/n male and female apparel.

The word of God does not change for the world or culture - if the world or a culture wants to get saved and live for God, then THEY change for the word of God.

Who am I to tell the Philippino's that a barong (spelled right?) is an ungodly piece of apparel? I have a barong and have worn it to church here in north america.

However, obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves...

[Jeremy]

having the unique perspective of having been a hard core conservative youth minister, and now being 100% the opposite direction, I can honestly say my view on the showman ship of worship services has not changed one bit.

What is the effect you are going for with the lights and the effects? In my mind, it can only serve one of two purposes.

A: Entertainment value. The lights and the effects are merely there to look pretty and make things feel more "cool". Nothing insidious about wanting to make worship seem more palatable to young people, but this type of plan is inherently doomed to fail because you will never ever ever ever EVER match the entertainment value of what the world has to offer. Once they get a taste of the lights and concert effects of the world, why would they stick with the generic brand they find in the church?

B: Creating hype to simulate genuine moves of the Holy Ghost. This I have a major problem with in both principle and function. To invoke carnal emotion that can be found in any concerts going on around the country and pretend that it is a move of God is disgusting. I do believe that there are some who understand that it is a short cut to the emotional high that they are trying to reach for their conferences and meetings and use the effects to replicate the intense worship atmosphere one would usually expect to find in a traditional worship environment. What a disservice to the kids involved!


Some would argue that there is no difference between the lights and effects and quality music, but I would simply point out that music is a biblical form of worship and belongs in the churches as part of the process. Hype inducing production takes away from the the individual services and it takes away from the long term effect these services can have on the young people who attend them.

I understand why some people would not understand why people such as myself make such a big deal out o it, as it's just lights. I can only ask you to seek out the purpose behind the practice. is it really for spiritual edification, or is it a simple man made tool to manufacture a high emotion environment?

[Tim Rutledge]

[QUOTE=Jeremy;581319]having the unique perspective of having been a hard core conservative youth minister, and now being 100% the opposite direction, I can honestly say my view on the showman ship of worship services has not changed one bit.


Jeremy. A full 100% ??

[Jeremy]

Well, I guess I feel the same about lights. Lol. if 100% is biting heads off bats and drinking their blood, then no, but I have certainly changed a lot from where I was to where I am.

[Tim Rutledge]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Well, I guess I feel the same about lights. Lol. if 100% is biting heads off bats and drinking their blood, then no, but I have certainly changed a lot from where I was to where I am.

Really.. you've changed.

Me too. I'm as sweet as sugar.