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  #91  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:15 PM
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Emma Bontrager Emma Bontrager is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Still way behind, 1,561 to 1,686. Emma? You been praying again?
I am simply NOT trying to be more popular (even though it would stand to reason that I would be). I used to be extremely popular, but I felt bad, repented and stopped posting, as I felt convicted by it. One should never look for accolades of men.

Everytime I get popular, I simply stop posting. It keeps me more spiritual that way.
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  #92  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:17 PM
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Re: Jephthah's Really Bad Luck

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Time for a break. Might pick up the series again later. For now, consider:


Jephthah's Really Bad Luck



Please read Judges 11. Or let me summarize for you. After some squabbling with the king of Ammon, war could not be avoided. The general of the good guys was Jephthah. Now, maybe he wasn't thinking very clearly, but he made a deal with God:
If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
Sure enough, the Lord delivered those Ammonites into his hands. And, wouldn't ya know it?! Who's the first one out the door of Jeph's house to greet him? His daughter. His only child! I can only imagine what was going through his mind. "Oh man, what are the chances of that happening?!" Guess he was hoping for a lamb to greet him, or something. And maybe then he thought back to the story of Abraham and Isaac, expecting (hoping) that God would stop him, just like he stopped Abraham.

No such luck. Jephthah killed and burned his daughter, in offering to God.

God is strangely silent on the matter, but we might assume that He was pleased with this sacrifice to Him. But you know what really stinks? The poor guy didn't even make it to the faith hall of fame in Hebrews! (Not to mention, his story is hardly ever in Sunday School curricula! )
Some people think that Jepthah simply never allowed his daughter to marry.

Not me. God expects exactly what you promise and will stand for no less.
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  #93  
Old 10-09-2009, 05:47 AM
Brad Murphy Brad Murphy is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Timmy,

I believe I'm following your logic here... if we just have the attractively challenged people wear revealing clothing (vericose veins, etc.) and have everyone else cover up, humanity will eventually begin to believe that EVERYONE'S legs are ugly, because the only ones they ever see are the ugly ones... this could do a lot of good for the church!
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  #94  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:34 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Timmy,

I believe I'm following your logic here... if we just have the attractively challenged people wear revealing clothing (vericose veins, etc.) and have everyone else cover up, humanity will eventually begin to believe that EVERYONE'S legs are ugly, because the only ones they ever see are the ugly ones... this could do a lot of good for the church!
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  #95  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:35 AM
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Re: Jephthah's Really Bad Luck

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Originally Posted by Emma Bontrager View Post
Some people think that Jepthah simply never allowed his daughter to marry.

Not me. God expects exactly what you promise and will stand for no less.
Hey, that'd be a good topic for the Debate Room!
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  #96  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:42 PM
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Re: Jephthah's Really Bad Luck ERRATUM

I have to correct something. (Why didn't anyone else catch this error? ) I said that Jephthah wasn't mentioned in Hebrews 11:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
. . . But you know what really stinks? The poor guy didn't even make it to the faith hall of fame in Hebrews! . . .
Au contrare! He most certainly did! He was listed in verse 32:
And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets (NIV)
My mistake: I searched biblegateway.com for Jephthah, but there was a spelling difference in the KJV, so it seemed that there were no "hits" in the NT (it's Jephthae there). And I didn't remember him being mentioned. My bad. I should have just reread Heb 11 to verify.

My apologies to AFF and, most of all, to Jephthah!
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  #97  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:48 AM
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What You Believe -- Part 9

We now return to our regularly scheduled blog series.


What You Believe
Part 9
God Does Things For You


This, of course, is closely related to "God Speaks To People". Speaking to you is just one of many things He does for you. He also heals you, finds jobs for you, opens up parking spaces for you, the list goes on and on! In fact, I believe that you believe that everything good that happens to you is God at work. Is that correct?

Again, I can't help but venture into possibly disputed details, but I think it is the (unstated) policy of most, if not all, Apostolics to give God credit for anything and everything that you can't explain in "natural" terms. (And most won't try very hard to "explain" them!) Well, at least when those things are good. Not bad things. Usually. Unless those bad things happen to unbelievers. Those might be God at work. But I digress.

Now, sometimes these things God does for you are in response to prayers, but not always. Sometimes He just likes to bless His people, out of the blue. Got a promotion at work? God is so good! Somebody give you a car? That was God! Yes, God influences people (bosses, friends, even strangers) to be nice to you. Sure, maybe you deserved that promotion anyway, but I guess bosses sometimes need a little nudge. A supernatural nudge! (I don't know how you can tell if the boss was nudged, or he was just doing his job. Or maybe it's always God's doing. Dunno.)

Now, speaking of prayer, I don't think anyone here actually believes that God will do everything you ask Him to do. In fact, it would be silly to think that. God is not your butler! No, God knows which prayers to answer (with a "yes") and which ones not to. Now, when God does grant a request, is that always a time when He would have done it anyway (see previous paragraph)? Or are some of His blessings waiting in a warehouse somewhere, stamped "FOR RESPONSE TO PRAYER, ONLY"? I guess only God knows the answer.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?

Last edited by Timmy; 10-15-2009 at 09:51 AM.
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  #98  
Old 10-17-2009, 06:25 PM
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How To Tell If It's A Miracle Or Not

Another digression from the series, though related to a couple of the topics therein. Just some handy tips you might find useful. Always the helpful one, aren't I?


How To Tell If It's A Miracle Or Not


Did you ever see something that looked so amazing that it just had to be miracle? And I mean a genuine, impossible "in the natural", bona fide, it's-a-God-thing miracle? No other possible explanation but God intervened and made it happen?

Sweet! Most miracles are not so clear cut. Apparently, God sometimes makes people get well after being really sick. And it's kinda gradual, just like when it happens on its own. Well, it can be hard to tell, for both types of miracle, whether it really was God's work or not.

What I'm talking about here is when God deliberately made something happen that would not otherwise have happened. And actually, miracles of that sort may not violate any laws of nature, like recovering from a sickness. Another example was in my previous post, where God "nudges" the boss to give you a promotion.

So, on to the topic at hand. How can you tell? Oh, but first, another digression! Is it actually important to know whether something was a miracle or not? To some, maybe not. They're content with just assuming that everything good is a miracle, and giving God all the glory, and testifying about it, and so on. I can see some logic to that. Better safe than sorry: if God actually did something for you, you don't want to get Him riled by not being grateful, do you? And if He gets the credit for something that just happened the normal way, it probably wouldn't bother Him to get the credit, even if He didn't deserve it. I suppose.

Now, why is it important to me, to know for sure? I dunno, I guess I just like knowing the truth. Call me crazy, but I don't' think it's good to think God did something that He didn't. In fact, it can be downright dangerous! How? Well, for one thing, it's possible that someone could become complacent about things. Call me heretical, but I think one can become overly dependent on God. One could go through life expecting God to "take care" of everything, and lose the ambition to try to make things happen. One may not even try to be qualified for that promotion, if they think God will make it happen for them.

Another danger (and, actually, this applies to the real thing, too, if there is the real thing!) is that people who hear about them may become discouraged when things like that never seem to happen for them. Very discouraged. Maybe all you can do to help them is explain to them that God knows best. (Or some might think it's helpful to point out some possible reasons, like there's sin in their lives, etc.)

But sure, it would be good to acknowledge the real thing, when it happens. For the same reason I gave above: it's good to know the truth! If God did something for you, it's good to know about it (if possible).

So, if I haven't lost you yet, and you want to keep reading to get my advice on how to tell, good. I hope you are not disappointed.

OK, finally, how can you tell whether something that happens was a miracle or not? Here's my answer:

You can't!

Sorry, but it's true. It's the same as I've mentioned elsewhere regarding hearing from God. There is no way to be sure that any purported message really came from God. It's not that it's difficult. It is just not possible. (At this point, I know that probably most of my readers disagree strongly, and that's fine. And I hasten to add: this is my opinion! I could be wrong, and I look forward to being corrected, if and when. )

There are many claimed miracles (and messages from God) that are clearly not. Don't you agree? E.g., whenever a heretic, like a Mormon or a JW, claims a miracle, well, it may be something supernatural (you might say) but it sure wasn't from God!

And you guys aren't shy about judging even some of your own brethren, when it comes to some of the outrageous things they say God says to them. But the ones who get the messages are 100% convinced that they really were from God. They'd be the first to challenge my assertion above, and say "yes I can tell it's really from God"! Then they'll explain how they can tell. It's usually something like "I can just feel it", or "I know God's voice". They might throw in "it lines up with The Word". Do these convince you? Was Richard Gazowsky really commanded to make a blockbuster movie? If you don't think so, trying telling him that!

Which brings up a question I have for you: if you don't believe someone's claim to have heard from God, how can you tell? Is the message (like "make a movie" or "colonize a planet") just too weird to be something God would say? Well, that would be your opinion, and that's fine. But opinions are so.... iffy, ya know? They vary from person to person. Someone else might think colonizing a planet is a perfectly reasonable thing for God to order. (Pastor G's congregation seemed to think so.) And, when it comes down to it, they're right! I mean, God is God, right? He can make a way! Who am I to judge? But there is only one correct answer to the question "did God say that?". And nobody's opinion can change that, and no one's opinion can determine that answer, either! (And that would include Richard Gazowsky's opinion.)

Back to miracles in general. (Messages from God are a variety of miracle, too, of course.) What about the type of miracle that does seem to violate the laws of nature? Let's look to scripture for help. Look at Aaron. He "proves" to Pharaoh that God is with him by throwing down his rod and turning it into a snake. Wow! Impressive! That had to be God! There's no way Pharaoh could argue with that! Oh. Wait. There's a problem. Pharaoh's own magicians can do that, too. Hmm. Their "miracle" is just as impressive as Aaron's. Er, I mean God's.

Ah! But Aaron's snake devours the magicians' snakes! Now that's impressive (again)! That had to be God! There's no way Pharaoh could argue with that! And, luckily, this amazing feat was not duplicated by those magicians. I mean, it could have gone back and forth for who knows how long! But, since it stopped there, and Aaron was the last man standing, so to speak, we can be absolutely certain that God was the one behind Aaron's tricks. I mean miracles.

So, can we apply this to today? Well, it's not very often we see duelling miracles, these days. But if we did, I suppose whoever did the last amazing thing, unanswered, so to speak, must have been the one with God on his side. Or, if it's not a duel, maybe we learn that if something is amazing enough, then it was God. Or something. I dunno. Maybe you can tell me what we should get from the story.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to my opinion: we can't tell if God did it or not. (Actually, the story of the rods and snakes supports that opinion, if you really let it sink in. Aaron's rod turns into snake. Not amazing enough, since magicians do the same thing. Aaron's snake eats their snakes. Is it amazing enough now? We're supposed to think so. But why? Who's to say that the magicians could not have duplicated that feat, too, if they went off and practiced for a while?)

OK, but what about the really, really amazing things that happen? Those things that amaze even the doctors? Things that nobody could explain away? Well, sure! Maybe God did make them happen. He could have. But maybe it was something else. Maybe there are laws of nature that we don't understand. Or maybe the perceptions were wrong. Or maybe there are other supernatural forces involved. Or maybe someone played a trick -- an illusion (like Pharaoh's magicians). Even those amazing things, no matter how amazing they are, can't be proven to be literal miracles from God. But, again, maybe it's fine to assume they are, anyway.

Well, as always, I hope this has been interesting, and provided with some food for thought -- if you didn't gag on it somewhere along the way!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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  #99  
Old 10-17-2009, 07:04 PM
SeekingOne SeekingOne is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Recently a group of young people from our church prayed for a man that didn't believe in Jesus. His leg was twisted, broken and about 6" shorter than the other one. (This was overseas and it had gotten caught in something that twisted and broke it many years earlier.) While they prayed for him, his leg made snapping sounds, straightened and grew to the same length as the other leg. The man said that if his leg stayed that way, he would believe in Jesus! LOL

I didn't see it happen, but about 20 young people and a few church leaders were there and I don't believe they lied.

Another team that went on a short term mission actually brought back live footage of them praying for people and people being healed. The people they prayed for did not follow God and actually started saying curse words out of shock that they were getting healed. They had to "bleep" out what people were saying.

Our family has experienced miracles too, but that man's leg growing and straightening can not be denied.
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  #100  
Old 10-18-2009, 09:46 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Recently a group of young people from our church prayed for a man that didn't believe in Jesus. His leg was twisted, broken and about 6" shorter than the other one. (This was overseas and it had gotten caught in something that twisted and broke it many years earlier.) While they prayed for him, his leg made snapping sounds, straightened and grew to the same length as the other leg. The man said that if his leg stayed that way, he would believe in Jesus! LOL

I didn't see it happen, but about 20 young people and a few church leaders were there and I don't believe they lied.

Another team that went on a short term mission actually brought back live footage of them praying for people and people being healed. The people they prayed for did not follow God and actually started saying curse words out of shock that they were getting healed. They had to "bleep" out what people were saying.

Our family has experienced miracles too, but that man's leg growing and straightening can not be denied.
Cool!

Why is it that all the best miracles happen overseas, or long ago? Hey, could I see that video?
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My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
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