Christian owning guns?? - Page 2

Esaias · #11 12-18-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Right, no record of them even protecting themsleves.

No record

Actually, this is incorrect. Your use of the word "even" in response to Michael's statement means you are saying Christians did nothing to protect themselves. Yet we have Paul being hidden and using a basket to go over the wall to escape people bent on killing him (Acts 9). Furthermore, when a group of Jews conspired to assassinate him he availed himself of Roman soldiers for protection (Acts 23). The only way that would work is because the Roman soldiers carried swords and possibly spears and would have killed anyone trying to harm their prisoner. Therefore, Paul was quite willing for people to use deadly force to ensure his safety.

Jesus commanded His disciples to arm themselves, even if it meant selling their cloak to buy a sword. Why would He tell them to do this? In fact, two disciples were already armed, which means Jesus was travelling around having church with at least two disciples packing heat. There is nothing in the entire Bible that even remotely suggests God prefers His people to be unarmed.

1. There is no command against being armed.
2. The OT (which was written for our example and instruction) shows that being disarmed is a negative thing (1 Samuel 13:19-22).
3. There is a positive command to be armed (Luke 22:36).

Therefore, it is Biblical to be armed.

Regarding self defense:

1. There is no command prohibiting defending yourself against violent assault.
2. The Law recognises the right of self defense (Exodus 22:2).
3. Nehemiah understood the Law recognised the right of self defense (Nehemiah 4:13-14).
4. The NT recognises the validity of the Law as the Divinely ordained rule of conduct (Romans 8:4-7).

Therefore, self defense is Biblical.

Regarding persecution, it is pretty clear that Christians generally do not try to defend themselves against wanton persecution. Persecution is different than ordinary crime or assault. Many Christians, including the apostles, were willing to die for the Gospel rather than kill someone trying to persecute them. Martyrdom is certainly not condemned or looked down upon in Scripture, regardless of which Testament you read (although whoever martyrs one of God's people is obviously in danger of God's wrath). But as I pointed out above, there were times when Paul (and Jesus even!) used various means of defending themselves against people trying to kill them. Primarily by means of avoidance or escape, although as noted Paul was willing to use the threat of violence to persuade his would be murderers to stay away from him.

Every person has to decide for himself where he draws the line, what he will allow and what he will not allow, in regard to self defense and defense of others. But there is no Scripture that prohibits armed self defense, or which commands being disarmed, or which positively commands pacifism.

Scott Pitta · #12 12-18-2018, 05:48 PM

Probably not. They are put away when hunting season is over.

Truthseeker · #13 12-18-2018, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually, this is incorrect. Your use of the word "even" in response to Michael's statement means you are saying Christians did nothing to protect themselves. Yet we have Paul being hidden and using a basket to go over the wall to escape people bent on killing him (Acts 9). Furthermore, when a group of Jews conspired to assassinate him he availed himself of Roman soldiers for protection (Acts 23). The only way that would work is because the Roman soldiers carried swords and possibly spears and would have killed anyone trying to harm their prisoner. Therefore, Paul was quite willing for people to use deadly force to ensure his safety.

Jesus commanded His disciples to arm themselves, even if it meant selling their cloak to buy a sword. Why would He tell them to do this? In fact, two disciples were already armed, which means Jesus was travelling around having church with at least two disciples packing heat. There is nothing in the entire Bible that even remotely suggests God prefers His people to be unarmed.

1. There is no command against being armed.
2. The OT (which was written for our example and instruction) shows that being disarmed is a negative thing (1 Samuel 13:19-22).
3. There is a positive command to be armed (Luke 22:36).

Therefore, it is Biblical to be armed.

Regarding self defense:

1. There is no command prohibiting defending yourself against violent assault.
2. The Law recognises the right of self defense (Exodus 22:2).
3. Nehemiah understood the Law recognised the right of self defense (Nehemiah 4:13-14).
4. The NT recognises the validity of the Law as the Divinely ordained rule of conduct (Romans 8:4-7).

Therefore, self defense is Biblical.

Regarding persecution, it is pretty clear that Christians generally do not try to defend themselves against wanton persecution. Persecution is different than ordinary crime or assault. Many Christians, including the apostles, were willing to die for the Gospel rather than kill someone trying to persecute them. Martyrdom is certainly not condemned or looked down upon in Scripture, regardless of which Testament you read (although whoever martyrs one of God's people is obviously in danger of God's wrath). But as I pointed out above, there were times when Paul (and Jesus even!) used various means of defending themselves against people trying to kill them. Primarily by means of avoidance or escape, although as noted Paul was willing to use the threat of violence to persuade his would be murderers to stay away from him.

Every person has to decide for himself where he draws the line, what he will allow and what he will not allow, in regard to self defense and defense of others. But there is no Scripture that prohibits armed self defense, or which commands being disarmed, or which positively commands pacifism.

My point is there wasn't no record of them protecting themsleves. Not that they didnt, but I do think if they were killing others with their swords it would be mention at least once in acts.

Esaias · #14 12-18-2018, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

My point is there wasn't no record of them protecting themsleves. Not they didnt, but I do think if they were killing others with their swords it would be mention at least once in acts.

I assume you mean there was no record of them killing anyone? Protecting yourself does not always require killing someone, or even using a weapon.

The fact there is no record of the apostles and first century church using weapons to protect themselves only means there is no record of them using weapons to protect themselves. It does not mean we are forbidden from using weapons to protect ourselves. Technically, it doesn't even mean they did NOT use weapons to protect themselves. The lack of a written record of the apostles doing something doesn't really mean much except when it comes to acts of worship or explanation and propagation of doctrine (in which case the Regulative Principle comes into play).

LOVE JESUS · #15 12-18-2018, 06:17 PM

We have a pistol on the night stand by our bed. We both have weapon permits and one of us carry a concealed weapon almost all the time. Hope we never have to use it but we would protect the family.

Jito463 · #16 12-18-2018, 11:00 PM

I've had a conceal carry license for nearly a year now, and carry every single day (and yes, that means to church). I pray to God that I'll never need it, but I won't go anywhere without it. Not just to defend my own life, but I also carry for the defense of others should the need arise.