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  #331  
Old 02-10-2021, 05:58 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipas View Post
Hmmm...

The Pauline exception is drawn from I Corinthians 7:10-15. The first part of this passage is to believers with believing spouses. And Paul states that it isn't his command, but the Lord's...
I Corinthians 7:10-15
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
Paul appears to be in perfect agreement with Jesus that divorcees should remain unmarried and that ideally they should seek reconciliation. And in practice, the faithful Christian will never desire a divorce.

In the rest of the passage, below, Paul issues what some call the Pauline Exception...
I Corinthians 7:12-15
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Obviously the question arose in the early church regarding married couples wherein one partner had become a Christian and the other remained unsaved. Paul advises believers to remain with their unbelieving spouses if they are pleased to remain with them.

However, if the unbeliever departs the union, the believer is not to protest or stand in the way. The believer is to peacefully allow them to leave the marriage, i.e. divorce.

The text that the Pauline Exception is drawn from states that the abandoned believer "is not under bondage in such cases".

It is my understanding that the Pauline Exception states that if the unbeliever departs, the believer is no longer bound to the marriage and may freely remarry.

If not being "under bondage" means something else, what might it mean? I'm curious about the different perspectives among us. I'm curious because I believe that marriage is an indissoluble bond. If we can uncloud the waters and explain Paul's words without turning them into another "exception", I'm truly interested to see the possibilities. Because I've been on the fence regarding this exception since I originally heard it.
The “unbelieving departs”, this is obviously not for the fear of God or a desire to be obedient to his word, but quite the opposite. The very basis of being an unbeliever places them in bondage. It is sin and the bondage thereof that a sinner/unbeliever is(automatically)in due to their refusal to comply to Gods will , whether in marriage or any other aspect of life. This is the reason the unbeliever departs. You do not find the believer departing.
So when the unbeliever departs it is a manifestation of the bondage to sin that is being referenced by the apostle. Obviously the believer being obedient in and to the faith ( is not under bondage) and does not stoop to the same fleshly embracing of sin. They obey the word of the Lord as spoken by Paul, remain unmarried or be reconciled.
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  #332  
Old 02-10-2021, 06:24 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
The “unbelieving departs”, this is obviously not for the fear of God or a desire to be obedient to his word, but quite the opposite. The very basis of being an unbeliever places them in bondage. It is sin and the bondage thereof that a sinner/unbeliever is(automatically)in due to their refusal to comply to Gods will , whether in marriage or any other aspect of life. This is the reason the unbeliever departs. You do not find the believer departing.
So when the unbeliever departs it is a manifestation of the bondage to sin that is being referenced by the apostle. Obviously the believer being obedient in and to the faith ( is not under bondage) and does not stoop to the same fleshly embracing of sin. They obey the word of the Lord as spoken by Paul, remain unmarried or be reconciled.
That goes totally against the context of what Paul is discussing. He is giving those abandoned by unbelievers a clear exemption from the same moral obligations he slaps on believers that departed from their mates. Nice try, though.

Actually, it wasn't a nice try. Your hermeneutics suck. The real question is, what compels you in this direction? Was there an abandonment in your past? Do you still love the one who forsook you? Is morally obligating yourself a way you can still feel married to them?
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  #333  
Old 02-10-2021, 08:33 PM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
That goes totally against the context of what Paul is discussing. He is giving those abandoned by unbelievers a clear exemption from the same moral obligations he slaps on believers that departed from their mates. Nice try, though.

Actually, it wasn't a nice try. Your hermeneutics suck. The real question is, what compels you in this direction? Was there an abandonment in your past? Do you still love the one who forsook you? Is morally obligating yourself a way you can still feel married to them?
You disagree with me , it’s ok I disagree with you also. But I have read these threads carefully. The evidence provided by Steven Avery and Peter 83, fits better with scripture than what you have presented. I am studying and praying about it, but that is my best take on this subject at this point.


One wife for life.
I’ve only been married the one time. If one of us passes then we would be free to marry in the Lord.
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  #334  
Old 02-11-2021, 10:20 AM
james34 james34 is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

“I have two daughters* who have not known men. . . . Lot spoke unto his sons-in-law, who married [laqach, literally, be taking, a participle, no tense] his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city, But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons-in-law” (Genesis 19:8-14).

* “How many daughters did Lot have?” by Lyon (2002). We do not know whether there were two or four. Both interpretations of “married” are consistent with the KJB. Research: Only Lot’s sons-in-law and two daughters are mentioned. Were there younger daughters married to these sons-in-law? In ancient Canaan, daughters married shortly after puberty (Noll, 2001, p. 165). One of Lot’s two virgin daughters was the "FIRSTBORN" (Genesis 19:31). It was the custom for the firstborn to be given in marriage first (Genesis 29:26). She would normally become betrothed at 11 to 12 years of age. It is highly unlikely that the firstborn had another two sisters younger than 11 who were already given in marriage and now living with husbands. Adding two more daughters who are not mentioned is adding to God’s Word; neither is there mention of Lot warning these phantom daughters. Lot most likely had two daughters, the firstborn and her one younger sister, not four daughters. Genesis 19:15 distinguishes two daughters “which are here,” from the sons-in-law, “who are absent” (Poole, 1685). According to Jewish historian, Josephus (94 AD), the sons-in-law were betrothed to Lot's two virgin daughters (Antiquities l. 1. c. 11.
sect. 4). Still it was considered a legal marriage because “[T]he betrothal is equivalent to an actual marriage” (Betrothal, 1906, ¶ 3).

“And what man is there that hath betrothed [aras] a wife, and hath not
taken [laqach] her? Let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle,
and another man take [laqach] her” (Deuteronomy 20:7
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Last edited by james34; 02-11-2021 at 10:29 AM.
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  #335  
Old 02-11-2021, 01:08 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

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Originally Posted by james34 View Post
...I have read these threads carefully. The evidence provided by Steven Avery and Peter 83, fits better with scripture than what you have presented. I am studying and praying about it, but that is my best take on this subject at this point.

One wife for life.
I’ve only been married the one time. If one of us passes then we would be free to marry in the Lord.
Thanks.
Yes, this is a hard teaching for many, because of the dynamic within the churches.
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  #336  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:47 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Adultery vs Fornication

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Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
Thanks.
Yes, this is a hard teaching for many, because of the dynamic within the churches.
Your teaching is easily debunked and has been.
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