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  #151  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:01 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

There are countless millions of future " trib saints" alive today. These are sincere believers in Jesus that are not qualified to be caught away. Only the First century bride types will be caught away. The various passages in Rev. Find saints, even 144,000 Jews that are considered saints by God.

We definitely cannot be lumped in with everyone else. Especially when the Holy Ghost, restraining force is taken out of the way.
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  #152  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:02 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

I know, l know, blasphemy, heresy, etc......lol
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  #153  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:21 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.....




4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
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  #154  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:27 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

144,000 saints of this group....



4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
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  #155  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:33 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

The earthly saints....



Revelation 7King James Version (KJV)

7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.




The saints already in heaven......


9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.



The eventual combining of these various groups.....



And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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  #156  
Old 11-18-2017, 09:39 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

The 144,000 Jewish saints eventually found in heaven....



3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.




Now, a trio of angels telling earth's inhabitants(new saints) to praise God, resist the Mark of the Beast and join the 144,000 in death as necessary....



6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them
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  #157  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:49 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Sean is pre-trib. Why am I not surprised. "Church taken in Chapter 4". Tyical, horrible pre-trib hermeneutics.
Exactly.
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  #158  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:55 AM
fionnlagh fionnlagh is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

1 Thessalonians 5:9 "9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

The key word here is wrath and what it means in the Greek. The word here is: ὀργή. The translation of this into English alphabet is: orgḗ (or-gay). This word has been translated thusly in to the following words: anger, 3; indignation, 1; vengeance, 1; wrath, 31. The Thayer definition of this word is the following:

1. anger, the natural disposition, temper, character
2. movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but esp. anger
3. anger, wrath, indignation
a. anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself
of punishments inflicted by magistrates.

This indicates that the understanding attributed here to mean the tribulation is incongruent with the actual meaning of the word.

Therefore it is my understanding and my theory that this verse should be correctly understood to say and or mean, "9 For God hath not appointed us to anger (to be angry) (hard to get along with) (contentious), but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
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  #159  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:23 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

Lol
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  #160  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:25 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

God's wrath becomes man's wrath? Clever, but wrong.

Last edited by Sean; 11-18-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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