I dont wanna be that guy but...Im feeling convicte

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So it's okay to set aside the birthday of Baal as "special" to God, as the day to celebrate Christ's birthday? And use all the rites of paganism to "honour" God?

Can we also set aside little statues as "special" to God?

Is the worship of God even regulated by God? Or just whatever we feel like doing? Especially when we feel like doing something ordained by the Papacy?

Does December 25th belong to Baal or God?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Sometimes I think these brothers don't feel holy enough trusting in the sufficiency of Jesus and look for ways to further purge themselves. I knew an Apostolic girl who went to a strict, anti-Christmas Apostolic Church. Her family was UPC. She backslid and became a stripper. Yet, she continued to condemn her UPC family members for celebrating Christmas. Not celebrating Christmas was all she had left for righteousness' sake.

That's sad.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

In my personal experience the people crowing about how we should not celebrate Christmas are people who don't have children or there children are grown. Most of which did celebrate it while their kids where small, but they conveniently come to the truth when their children where grown and out of the house.

I celebrated my last Christmas in 1976. I raised 3 kids and we never once had a tree or bought presents.

So is THIS why people refuse to separate their lives to the Lordship of Christ?

The kids would be offended?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
So it's okay to set aside the birthday of Baal as "special" to God, as the day to celebrate Christ's birthday? And use all the rites of paganism to "honour" God?

Can we also set aside little statues as "special" to God?

Is the worship of God even regulated by God? Or just whatever we feel like doing? Especially when we feel like doing something ordained by the Papacy?

It would be as if I told my wife, I will celebrate your birthday not when it is or was but rather on my last girlfriends birthday. Dont worry, you will learn to like it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The early tractatus De solstitiia records the tradition of the Archangel Gabriel appearing to Zachariah in the High Temple when he was serving as high priest on the Day of Atonement (Lk 1:8). This placed the conception of St. John the Baptist during the feast of Tabernacles in late September, as the Archangel Gabriel said (Lk 1:28) and his birth nine months later at the time of the summer solstice. (4)

Since the Gospel of Luke states that the Archangel Gabriel appeared to the Virgin Mary in the sixth month after John's conception (Lk 1:26), this placed the conception of Christ at about the time of the spring equinox, that is, at the time of the Jewish Passover, in late March. His birth would thus be in late December at the time of the winter solstice.

That these dates, based on Tradition and Scripture, are trustworthy is confirmed by recent evidence taken from the Dead Sea Scrolls, whose authors were very concerned about calendar dates, essential for establishing when the Torah feasts should be celebrated. The data found in the Scrolls make it possible to know the Temple’s rotating assignment of priests during Old Testament times and show definitely that Zachariah served as a Temple priest in September, thus confirming the tradition of the Early Church. (5)

The Catholic Church determined March 25 as the date of Our Lord’s Conception long before Aurelian decided to make his solar feast. For example, around 221 AD, Sexto Julio Africano wrote the Chronographiai in which he affirmed that the Annunciation was March 25. (6) Once the date of the Incarnation was established, it was a simple matter of adding nine months to arrive at the date of Our Lord’s birth - December 25. This date would not be made official until the late fourth century, but it was established long before Aurelian and Constantine. It had nothing to do with pagan festivals.

This was very interesting. Pretty detailed. Nice sources. Can anyone refute this?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

I heard Charles Mahaney preaching one time, saying...."As soon as I got the Holy Ghost, I got rid on my Christmas tree and never got one since!.........the grandkids came along"....LOL

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

IMO, Christmas could be a tool or a vice, depending on our attitude toward it. In the last 14 years as a family, my home has put up a tree once. It is not because of personal convictions, but because of the convictions of others. As a minister, my family and I know very well that a preachers homes are often viciousely scrutinized by others over the standards they hold. Espeacially in apostolic circles. For most Americans the traditions linked with the Christmas holiday has no more purpose then fun and festivities.

The traditions associated with Christmas are merely for fun and have no purpose for idolatry. Kids enjoy the family time decorating and giving out surprise gifts to one another. As for pagan roots, there are so many customs today that can be linked to, or are influenced by pagan religion throughout history we could never escape its influence someway.

Paul dealt with eating things sacrificed to idols. He made the point that the idol is nothing, but for conscious sake he would eat nothing sacrificed to and idol. He makes a point, to eat asking nothing. We are not detectives trying to bust every practice that might have had some pagan influence. It is a very slippery slope that does not advance the kingdom of God. Of course we should not knowingly participate in a pagan rite, but I don't think any one truly knows where each Christmas custom originated.

I personally believe that we should be tolerant of one another on this subject. Whether or not you want to celebrate Christmas you do to some degree. If you are enjoying a day off work the 25th it is in celebration of Christmas, and in a sense you are clebrating whether you want to or not. I didn't invent the holiday or its traditions, but being a scrooge is counterproductive to the work of God,

Amen.

You know, it could be argued that we see more actual "idolatry" on the 4th of July than we do on Christmas.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The vast majority of professing Christians aren't. They follow a religion that is not the religion of Jesus and the apostles, while claiming to follow Jesus and the apostles. Most don't actually want to follow the Bible, they want a ticket to heaven (minimum requirements, please) while living as THEY see fit.

But, this is how it's been since the deaths of the apostles. And will be until that Day of Rude Awakening.

In all honesty, don't we all live according to what we see as being "fit"? For example, you are clearly against the Christmas holiday. Based on your understanding, and chosen interpretation of the Scriptures, you believe that this is fitting. Another brother or sister might not agree with your understanding and chosen interpretation of the Scriptures. Based on their understanding and interpretation of the Scriptures, they might see most modern "holidays" as purely a matter of conscience. As a result, they live as they see fitting.

This causes to me to a question.

1.) Who is assuming authority to force or coerce another to act contrary to their conscience? For the desire to "control" others is the greatest of heresies.

Based on my study of the Scriptures, Christianity is a religion of the Spirit. It has no ritual dress code, it has no dietary requirements, it has no sacred holidays, it has no mandated Sabbaths.

Colossians 2:16-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

True, biblical, and spiritual Christianity is therefore the most universal of religions on the planet. Every false religion has it's "holy days", festivals, dietary requirements, dress codes, Sabbaths, etc. But Biblical Christianity is... of the Spirit. It is "other worldly". The Christian will find themselves surrounded by cultural holidays, customs, observances, etc. in every earthly context. For these are all the basic principles of carnal and worldly religion. But the Christian is bound to NONE of it. In fact, the Christian is in a place of total liberty, dead to the world.

Therefore a Christian truly has two options. And the right choice will largely depend upon contemporary cultural context.

1.) The Christian can choose to completely abstain from observing any holiday, tradition, or custom.
2.) The Christian can choose to decide to participate at a level that doesn't offend their conscience.

Neither choice is "wrong". What would be wrong would be to try and "force" or "coerce" one to observe something that is against their conscience.

It is much like the Pledge of Allegiance. Some Christians act as though it is a sacred rite that no honorable Christian would refuse. However, other Christians might deeply feel compelled to refuse to pledge allegiance to anything but Christ. Therefore, to them, the Pledge of Allegiance boarders on being brazenly idolatrous. These Christians might also refuse to stand for the National Anthem. They might also condemn the idea of their sons and daughters serving in the military, refusing to allow their children to be sacrificed on the altar of the modern Molech of nationalism.

Who is right?

Neither is right or wrong. They are each following their convictions. As long as individual convictions are respected among brethren, love and unity can continue. However, the moment either one of these Christians rise up in their flesh to force or coerce the other to act against their convictions, they have brought disunity to the body. They have ceased to act in love.

If a brother has no objections with putting up holiday decorations and seasonal décor, why condemn him?

If the ancient origins of such things offend a brother and he chooses not to put up holiday decorations and seasonal décor, why condemn him?

Each should encourage the other to glorify Christ in whatever their choice is. As a result, they both glorify Christ and show a lost and dying world what a unity founded in love looks like. But all too often, we behave as carnally as the world in our divisions, accusations, slander, threats, and coercion. The world then shakes her head and takes notice that we are no different from any other worldly institution that seeks to... control.

If my brother abstains from participating in Christmas. I do not judge him.

If my brother chooses to participate in the festivities. I do not judge him.

However, I will cast judgment on any who believes they have the right to threaten, condemn, or coerce others to the disunity of the body.

Let brotherly love continue.

[houston]

You know, it could be argued that we see more actual "idolatry" on the 4th of July than we do on Christmas.

MURICA... clinging to their guns and their religion.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

MURICA... clinging to their guns and their religion.

I've discovered that when both hands are full, it's difficult to cling to Christ.