left upci yr ago and still messed up - Page 8

Rose · #71 03-06-2012, 12:14 PM

My question is, if you do leave because of standards where do you go to hear the right doctrine? It seems to me that there is compromise no matter where you go.

Michael Phelps · #72 03-06-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

My question is, if you do leave because of standards where do you go to hear the right doctrine? It seems to me that there is compromise no matter where you go.

That raises a good question, Rose.........I guess my question in return is "What do you consider doctrine?"

If it's repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost as all being necessary for salvation, there are hundreds of churches around teh country that preach that, but do not hold to the traditional standards.

If you consider the standards part of the "doctrine" then you definitely have a dilemma.....

AreYouReady? · #73 03-06-2012, 12:30 PM

I left because I could never measure up to some of the standards. The standards "bar" kept getting raised as I attained the requirement for the "measurement" bar. There was always something that I was not attaining. I let my hair grow, quit wearing pants, no makeup or jewelry, no.... whatever what the standard of the day was. Whispers about what somebody else was doing was the norm, all the while those who whisper did not keep their own house in order. Standards became bigger than what Christ did for us. Bigger than His shed blood. Bigger than the love we were to have towards one another. People's attitudes about those standards that were being imposed were a stumbling block.

Nothing should take precedence over what Christ did for us on the cross.
Nothing should take precedence over the love we are to have towards one another. That is how the world sees that we are disciples of Christ. That is what Christ said this is how they will know the church.

So...maybe standards were not the real reason, just the symptom. Maybe it was the people who kept raising the bar, the ones who are without love...the ones who meddled in everybody else's life without sweeping their own life clean while disguising themselves under the pentecostal look?

People have the misnomer that leaving a church building means leaving Christ.
Sometimes we have to leave a certain assembly in order to revive our walk in Christ.

AreYouReady? · #74 03-06-2012, 12:34 PM

Ever notice that when a person finds Christ, they are exuberant, excited, exhilarated? They raise bubbles in the baptismal because they are dancing in the water.
Then the peer pressure starts....

Some people stay in that place and become bitter without confessing their bitterness. They know what will be said about them.

Other's leave while confessing their bitterness and endure the things said about them. These people are considered backslid no matter what kind of prayers to God are in their life at home.

Rose · #75 03-06-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

That raises a good question, Rose.........I guess my question in return is "What do you consider doctrine?"

If it's repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost as all being necessary for salvation, there are hundreds of churches around teh country that preach that, but do not hold to the traditional standards.

If you consider the standards part of the "doctrine" then you definitely have a dilemma.....

The doctrine of JESUS CHRIST and the apostles is a priority with me. So, I remain content in a church that does preach and teach sound doctrine. This is my compromise.

I have yet to find one of those 'hundreds of churches' that you mentioned.

Michael Phelps · #76 03-06-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

The doctrine of JESUS CHRIST and the apostles is a priority with me. So, I remain content in a church that does preach and teach sound doctrine. This is my compromise.

I have yet to find one of those 'hundreds of churches' that you mentioned.

So, you really didn't answer my question........so, I'll ask it this way:

If you could find a church that preached Acts 2:38, but didn't preach standards, would you feel that was a church that preached "doctrine"?

Rose · #77 03-06-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

So, you really didn't answer my question........so, I'll ask it this way:

If you could find a church that preached Acts 2:38, but didn't preach standards, would you feel that was a church that preached "doctrine"?

Yes, I believe that is a part of the doctrine but there is so much more.

J4Truth · #78 03-06-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I guess I missed some posts or something, because I haven't seen anyone on this thread using hypocrites as a reason for leaving standards.......or, are you just making the point about certain ones who do?

I do agree with your reasoning, it's a very poor excuse to use if you're leaving....there are hypocrites everywhere, and if we used that excuse in other areas of our lives, we'd stop going to work, stop playing golf, stop doing pretty much everything we do, because someone, somewhere who is doing those things is being a hypocrite about something at this very moment.

However, I don't see that as being the theme of this thread...........

It may not be the official theme of this particular thread but are we not talking about how those that hold to the "standards" mistreat and abuse others because they don't hold to the same? And unless you feel that the attitude that they have is justified and could, and should be used against someone that is lacking in any other area? Essentially I'm asking are you saying that how they treat others that don't hold to the same standards is acceptable attitude to have as a christian and the only thing wrong with there behavior is that they have such an attitude over standards?

Michael Phelps · #79 03-06-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

Yes, I believe that is a part of the doctrine but there is so much more.

Can you define the "more"?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to gain an understanding of what you feel is doctrinal, and what is optional.

Praxeas · #80 03-06-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Ever notice that when a person finds Christ, they are exuberant, excited, exhilarated? They raise bubbles in the baptismal because they are dancing in the water.
Then the peer pressure starts....

Some people stay in that place and become bitter without confessing their bitterness. They know what will be said about them.

Other's leave while confessing their bitterness and endure the things said about them. These people are considered backslid no matter what kind of prayers to God are in their life at home.

No...I never noticed that.

For every "I left the UPC because"...there are a dozen more "I stayed in the UPC because" or "I joined the UPC because"...

I have found there are many UPCs, apparently, where this stuff happens. I found there are many other UPCs, apparently, where this stuff does not happen.

For me, it's not a UPC issues, unless you left over organizational politics on a national level or you just disagree with UPC doctrines. For me it's a church to church/Pastor to pastor issue