Was judas finally saved?

[thephnxman]

An old argument has been brought to light (and is now being
popularized through the mass media), that Judas Iscariot, who
betrayed the Lord Jesus, was actually saved! It has been
debated that had Judas NOT betrayed Jesus, then the Lord
would not have been crucified for our redemption, and that
God would have had to find another means to save us. In
other words, Judas Iscariot was really being OBEDIENT to God
by betraying the Lord Jesus!

If we accept the above premise, then we must also accept the
argument that Lucifer ("...the cherub that covers...") will also be
saved in the end of time, because God “chose” him to be the
anti-thesis (direct opposite) of the Lord Jesus Christ. Had it not
been for Lucifer (now commonly referred to as Satan), we would
not know right from wrong: so that it would be impossible for
humanity to exercise our free will with any degree of certainty!
I submit that the argument as to the salvation of Judas Iscariot
and Lucifer (the fallen angel / Satan) is preposterous: as is that
proposition. But consider the similarities of both Lucifer (spiritual
realm) and Judas Iscariot (natural realm).

Before the beginning (of the creation of the universe), God first
created the angels. He ordained a heavenly order among them,
a “chain of command”, if you will: and delegated some authority
to them. God created music in Lucifer, and Lucifer was the most
perfect and lustrous among the angels, and even his name is
said to identify him as the “Star of the morning”. Lucifer also had
the coveted position of covering God’s Holiness: “Thou are the
anointed cherub THAT COVERS; and I have set thee so: thou
were upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and
down in the midst of the stones of fire.” Now Lucifer did not
act as God’s covering; rather, he made sure that God was always
covered in HOLINESS! Lucifer was given the same calling as the
other angels, and more so.

When Jesus chose the twelve apostles, he taught them all equally,
and upon sending them out to preach, he gave ALL of them the
very same instructions: “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise
the dead, cast out devils: freely you have received, freely give.”
So Judas, along with the other apostles, was also given authority
to heal the sick, etc.; he also received the same teachings as
the others;plus he had the added responsibility of caring for the
purse (monies)! Now this: God did not choose Lucifer to BECOME
Satan, just as he did not choose Judas Iscariot to BETRAY the
Lord Jesus. God gave both Lucifer and Judas Iscariot the same
opportunity to be holy, or to be saved, as the other angels and
apostles. But in spite of those opportunities, they each chose their
own paths. God chose Lucifer because God KNEW Lucifer would
CHOOSE to become as God (would betray God); and because Judas
Iscariot would CHOOSE to betray the Lord Jesus for thirty pieces
of silver over eternal life! God is righteous: He WOULD NEVER have
chosen a saint to betray the Lord! We are all being given the same
opportunity to receive the Gospel that saves:

“Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE of you in the NAME of
Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of sins, and YOU SHALL receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

[shazeep]

the argument goes that Judas expected Jesus to step up, to an earthly crown, and not down to crucifixion. Also, Judas sinned, and was apparently remorseful/repentant; yet Scripture does plainly condemn him. Interesting that the betrayer held the purse, huh?

God chose Lucifer because God KNEW Lucifer would
CHOOSE to become as God (would betray God); and because Judas
Iscariot would CHOOSE to betray the Lord Jesus for thirty pieces
of silver over eternal life! God is righteous: He WOULD NEVER have
chosen a saint to betray the Lord!

this reads as contradictory, to me anyway; not sure what is meant here? That Judas was not a saint, i guess? Then why the remorse, one wonders?

[mfblume]

it's not actually conclusive that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same being. that's the common tradition. they only connection is Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven and Isaiah said Lucifer fell from heaven.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

the argument goes that (1)Judas expected Jesus to step up, to an earthly crown, and not down to crucifixion. Also, Judas sinned, and was apparently remorseful/repentant; yet Scripture does plainly condemn him. Interesting that the betrayer held the purse, huh?
God chose Lucifer because God KNEW Lucifer would
CHOOSE to become as God (would betray God); and because Judas
Iscariot would CHOOSE to betray the Lord Jesus for thirty pieces
of silver over eternal life! God is righteous: He WOULD NEVER have
chosen a saint to betray the Lord!
(2) this reads as contradictory, to me anyway; not sure what is meant here? That Judas was not a saint, i guess? Then why the remorse, one wonders?

Good, honest question/comments

(1) Indeed, Judas Iscariot knew Jesus was righteous and
(a) could not perceive the evil in the religious element; so he
(b) could not conceive how the religious element could possibly
condemn Jesus. And yes, (c) he probably thought Jesus would
take his place as a King. Thus, betraying Jesus was a win-win
situation for Judas Iscariot.

(2) It makes sense if we learn to read content and context.
Compare the "remorse" of Peter and Judas Iscariot. See, Peter
REMEMBERED the words of Jesus and "...went out and wept
bitterly." NOTHING Peter could do to would remedy his
denial of Jesus. (Matt. 26: 69-75)

On the other hand, Judas Iscariot was surprised that Jesus
was condemned, and tried to retract his betrayal with the
SAME MONEY with which he had betrayed Jesus, confessing
that he had betrayed innocent blood. Judas Iscariot JUDGED
HIMSELF GUILTY by hanging himself. (Matt. 27:1-5)

Compare, also, Judas Iscariot with Cain.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

it's not actually conclusive that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same being. that's the common tradition. they only connection is Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven and Isaiah said Lucifer fell from heaven.

See 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence.

I am not arguing that, nor is that the main topic of the thread.
Incidentally, I wrote that sentence in there for you!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

See 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence.

I am not arguing that, nor is that the main topic of the thread.
Incidentally, I wrote that sentence in there for you!

I know. just a thought.


interesting issue.

I noticed that Judas did not expect Jesus to be arrested.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

[votivesoul]

Jesus said out of all that the Father had given him, none of them was lost but for the son of perdition, of whom it was written.

Cursed is every man who is hung on a tree. Judas hung himself before Jesus died on the cross, meaning he died under the law that placed the curse upon all those who are hung on a tree.

The case is closed, regardless of the gnostic Gospel of Judas.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Jesus said out of all that the Father had given him, none of them was lost but for the son of perdition, of whom it was written.
Cursed is every man who is hung on a tree. Judas hung himself before Jesus died on the cross, meaning he died under the law that placed the curse upon all those who are hung on a tree.
The case is closed, regardless of the gnostic Gospel of Judas.

Good thoughts

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I know. just a thought.
interesting issue.
I noticed that Judas did not expect Jesus to be arrested.
Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Yes: did not expect Jesus to be condemned!

[shazeep]

it seems he expected Christ to override men, usurp their free will, and take an earthly crown. Maybe fix the system from within. But how can one who repents be condemned?