Question for UPC ministers concerning the "New Church Order"

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Amos

I am flattered to have been the object of such close scrutiny and analysis.

And flattery prohibits response?

[Amos]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

And flattery prohibits response?

My Brother, response to what?

I guess I could say that whoever I fellowship doesn't embrace heresies contradicting Pauline doctrinal premises...

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Amos

My Brother, response to what?

I guess I could say that whoever I fellowship doesn't embrace heresies contradicting Pauline doctrinal premises...

Any extra biblical traditions taught? Any incredible leaps in logic in applying scripture?

[Steve Epley]

Nothing new about this church order same ole latter splatter stuff the IMA did in the 50's. The 'doctrine of NO doctrine.' A umbrella for false doctrines and false teachers. There is NOT ONE uc in this group!!!!!! You cannot be a UC and fellowship these false doctrines.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Nothing new about this church order same ole latter splatter stuff the IMA did in the 50's. The 'doctrine of NO doctrine.' A umbrella for false doctrines and false teachers. There is NOT ONE uc in this group!!!!!! You cannot be a UC and fellowship these false doctrines.

That's because many UCs revel in their own false teaching and heresies such as:

Salvational Holiness Dress Standards - false doctrine
Magic Hair - false doctrine
Baptismal Regeneration - false doctrine
Tongues or Hell - false doctrine
Salvific and prosperity tithing- false doctrine
Pastoral abuse/manipulation/dictatorship - dumb and unethical
Some never formally charged w/ immoral sin- dumb and unethical
Some preach prosperity doctrine - dumb
Some preach Word of faith "blab it and grab it" - dumb
Some believe heritage/ "man-made" traditions over the Word - dumb
Closed fellowship: dumber

[Amos]

Originally Posted by CC1

Any extra biblical traditions taught? Any incredible leaps in logic in applying scripture?

By extra-biblical traditions and logic leaps I am sure you mean standards for the most parts.

Though we would differ on our definitions of those things, I will admit that I fellowship men who hold views more extreme than my own in this area.

However, there is a world of difference between a man having convictions in areas of outward separation, and a man teaching heretical doctrines concerning salvation or the nature and person of Christ.

The two are light years apart.

The door of the Kingdom is the New Birth. If that doctrine isn't taught, it doesn't matter what else a ministry may be right about...no one is getting in the Kingdom.

So trying to compare the perhaps extreme views of some conservatives with the teachings of men who don't even preach the truth of salvation is like comparing apples and hippos. It won't fly.

Originally Posted by Amos

By extra-biblical traditions and logic leaps I am sure you mean standards for the most parts.

Though we would differ on our definitions of those things, I will admit that I fellowship men who hold views more extreme than my own in this area.

However, there is a world of difference between a man having convictions in areas of outward separation, and a man teaching heretical doctrines concerning salvation or the nature and person of Christ.

The two are light years apart.

The door of the Kingdom is the New Birth. If that doctrine isn't taught, it doesn't matter what else a ministry may be right about...no one is getting in the Kingdom.

So trying to compare the perhaps extreme views of some conservatives with the teachings of men who don't even preach the truth of salvation is like comparing apples and hippos. It won't fly.

While I agree that the standards themselves are not false doctrine, the way they are taught is. Some have elevated these standards to the same level of John 3:16, John 3:5 and Acts 2:38.

These conservatives are teaching a different New Birth than Paul did. It is as if sins are not forgiven unless proper works can be shown. Adding to the message of the New Birth is just as bad as not teaching it at all.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by johnmark93

While I agree that the standards themselves are not false doctrine, the way they are taught is. Some have elevated these standards to the same level of John 3:16, John 3:5 and Acts 2:38.

These conservatives are teaching a different New Birth than Paul did. It is as if sins are not forgiven unless proper works can be shown. Adding to the message of the New Birth is just as bad as not teaching it at all.

Their teachings on remission, justification, sanctification, and regeneration are in step w/ the Catholic church.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Their teachings on remission, justification, sanctification, and regeneration are in step w/ the Catholic church.

And yours is in step with the Baptists.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Amos

And yours is in step with the Baptists.

SLAM DUNK!