Jesus fulfillment of the law

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, the Law is still waiting to judge us if our OLD MAN is allowed off the cross. What I mean is, you and I could place ourselves right back under the law TODAY, if we let our old nature reign. That is why we can only be out from under the law by "walking in the Spirit" and bearing the "fruits of the Spirit", according to Gal 5....


Brother, the Law, led us to Jesus, but it has not gone away. It is there to judge the "carnal believer"

Your post begs a question...

And how would you know that you're not carnal?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Your post begs a question...

And how would you know that you're not carnal?

Thats the million dollar question brother, your measuring stick is this.....Gal 5

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(implying only if we are led of the Spirit)

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(these folks are not Spirit led and are therefore under the Law)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Bro., just bear these fruits and you are officially "walking in the Spirit", and not under ANY of the Law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Sean

Gal. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I love this scripture. So simple! Being led of the spirit means that we are not under the law, but the Law is in us, because Jesus became the law, and His spirit is the law working in us. An amazing revelation, and concept!

Originally Posted by Sean

The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.

Indeed. If the Spirit of Jesus who is now the law indwells us, the fruit of the spirit will be the natural outcome of that indwelling spirit within us.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

Thats the million dollar question brother, your measuring stick is this.....Gal 5

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(implying only if we are led of the Spirit)

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(these folks are not Spirit led and are therefore under the Law)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Bro., just bear these fruits and you are officially "walking in the Spirit", and not under ANY of the Law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.

But aren't there people of other faiths that are loving, joyful, peaceful, longsuffering, gentle, good, and faithful? Are they led of the Spirit?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But aren't there people of other faiths that are loving, joyful, peaceful, longsuffering, gentle, good, and faithful? Are they led of the Spirit?

Good question, I believe a person can be Spirit filled, but here is an attribute of having the Holy Spirit, that is not mentioned here above...... John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

We must realize that Paul, wrote to the Galatian church, knowing that they had the FULL truth, with him as their personal coach. Folks these days are having a problem with OBEYING the Spirit of Truth right out the gate...

Can we walk in the Spirit and our foundational teachings be a LIE?...We see it everywhere now, but be assured that the Holy Ghost is battling with self willed individuals of ALL faiths, including our own, about the sin of false doctrine(lying) as we speak. If we are teaching or believing false doctrine, we are walking(limping) in the Spirit as a cripple on spiritual crutches....

[good samaritan]

Cornelius was a devout man who prayed and gave alms. By definition he had fruit of the Spirit in his life, but yet he didn't have the Spirit. That is why I believe many ultra cons and libs both miss it. One group overemphasizes the outside and the other group only emphasizes the inside. We can do good things and not have Jesus, but I need to have Jesus and that gives so much more meaning to doing good things.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Cornelius was a devout man who prayed and gave alms. By definition he had fruit of the Spirit in his life, but yet he didn't have the Spirit. That is why I believe many ultra cons and libs both miss it. One group overemphasizes the outside and the other group only emphasizes the inside. We can do good things and not have Jesus, but I need to have Jesus and that gives so much more meaning to doing good things.

Just an interesting thought bro. Cornelius was a GENTILE, doing works of the Law and God honored it. It(Law) was, for a GENTILE, a schoolmaster that led him to Christ.

[KeptByTheWord]

I've been reading through the book of Deuteronomy. I'm so thankful that Jesus became the law for me! Trying to understand and remember the various and sundry laws that the Israelites had to partake of certainly was cumbersome, yet they had awesome promises from the Lord to go along with that. I'm thankful that today, Jesus is the law that reigns in my life, and His spirit indwelling me, along with the written Word teaches me from moment to moment, day to day how to live.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can that be true if the Law is written to them who are under the Law, namely Israel? I used to claim the same thing you stated, but reconsidered it after reading Romans 3. We also read that people without the law are a law unto themselves, implying distinction for responsibility for the law of Moses.

I believe that within "the law" we have the "Law of God" and the "Law of Moses".

*Law of God = The Ten Commandments; an eternal moral law that defines sin and is also reflected in every man's conscience. It was written by God on tables of stone and codified for ancient Israel. It was also placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

*Law of Moses = The ethical, social, ceremonial, judicial law given specifically to Israel by Moses. Placed in a compartment on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. This law contains types and shadows that point to the work of Christ.

Christ "fulfilled" the entire law (Law of God and Law of Moses) for the born again believer. However, the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) wasn't "abolished". It still stands to convict of sin and drive men who seek forgiveness to Christ. It also still stands to condemn the wicked in the day of Judgment.

The born again believer is under grace. While the Law was fulfilled in Christ as it relates to the born again believer, the born again believer isn't without a law. The born again believer is bound by a higher law that captures the very essence of the Law of God and goes beyond it. This is known as the Law of Love... or the Law of Christ. This law contains only one commandment... love. This single commandment is expressed in two commandments:

*Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.

*Love your neighbor as yourself.

By loving God with all our being and then demonstrating our love for God by loving others as ourselves we fulfill the very spirit and intent of the Law.

Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that within "the law" we have the "Law of God" and the "Law of Moses".

*Law of God = The Ten Commandments; an eternal moral law that defines sin and is also reflected in every man's conscience. It was written by God on tables of stone and codified for ancient Israel. It was also placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

*Law of Moses = The ethical, social, ceremonial, judicial law given specifically to Israel by Moses. Placed in a compartment on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. This law contains types and shadows that point to the work of Christ.

Again, I also used to believe that as well, but learned that the Law of God and the Law of Moses are one and the same. The law was written and engraved on stones, and is called the law of sin and death, and is directly associated with Moses as the personaification in ministry of that law. That is the ten commandments. Paul said in 2 Cor 3 that the law written and engraved on stones was the ministration of death and is NOT administered to in the New Testament.

2Co 3:3 KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Co 3:7-11 KJV But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. (10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. (11) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

It was done away with.... the ministration of death and condemnation was known as the ten commandments and law in general. There is no distinction between law of Moses and law of God. And Paul plainly stated it is done away. And the New Covenant administers life and Spirit. the ten commandments were so inextricably linked to Law of Moses, that Moses is said to stand in figure as the entire concept of ten commandments written in stone and his face shining stands for the glory of that law. Paul said the fact that Israel could not see the light fade from his face stands in type for the Jews not knowing the LAW would END.

Paul's writings above make it clear that Law of Moses is Law of God.

Christ "fulfilled" the entire law (Law of God and Law of Moses) for the born again believer. However, the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) wasn't "abolished". It still stands to convict of sin and drive men who seek forgiveness to Christ. It also still stands to condemn the wicked in the day of Judgment.

I disagree. The ten commandments were the subject of the Law in 2 Cor 3 and was said to be done away. But that does not mean the righteousness of that law is not what God looks for any more. It is a righteousness that cannot be imputed through commanding obedience to rules, though. That's the only difference. The righteousness of the Law of Moses/God is still what God wants in us. Paul told Timothy that the end or purpose of the law was to establish righteousness in our hearts.

1Ti 1:5 KJV Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:


But Paul told about how that Law failed to accomplish that.

Rom 8:3-4 KJV For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And later in 1 Tim 1, Paul said the same thing about how GRACE did what LAW could not do.

1Ti 1:14 KJV And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The very faith and love that law tried to put within man, which amounts to the righteousness of the law, could not be accomplished in us by law. But grace was full of the very same thing Law tried to produce. So the entire concept of commanding man to obey the ten commandments in order to be righteous DOES NOT NOR WILL NOT WORK. This is because of the flesh that makes the law weak, as Romans 8:3 says. SO, because the flesh makes law weak, and the only way to keep a commanding law is to utilize flesh to make yourself obey it, the entire concept of LAW in that fashion (whether it be ten commandments on stone, of God or of Moses) HAD TO GO. ANOTHER MEANS had to exist for the same goal of righteousness to be put within us. And that means is grace through faith.

So, we cannot say the righteousness of the law was done away with. Just the law itself. Even the ten commandments. Not because the commandments are evil or wrong, but because the entire ball of wax of trying to obey a law is a fleshly means to a good end. It is called walking after the flesh. To read and obey the law written on stones of the tablets from Moses' hands is to walk after the flesh. But to believe God to impute the very same righteousness to us through faith relies on God's power to cause us to have and obey that righteousness. And that is called walking after the Spirit and it takes faith and prayer.

The law of God is the Law of Moses is the ten commandments. The bible treats them synonymously. And someone came up with a distinction that is not in the bible itself.

The born again believer is under grace. While the Law was fulfilled in Christ as it relates to the born again believer, the born again believer isn't without a law.

Agreed. We have the Law of the Spirit of Life which causes us, if we abide by it through faith and prayer found in Rom 6:13, to keep the very same righteousness that Law tried but failed to cause us to keep.

The born again believer is bound by a higher law that captures the very essence of the Law of God and goes beyond it. This is known as the Law of Love... or the Law of Christ. This law contains only one commandment... love. This single commandment is expressed in two commandments:

*Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.

*Love your neighbor as yourself.

By loving God with all our being and then demonstrating our love for God by loving others as ourselves we fulfill the very spirit and intent of the Law.

Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Amen to all your last section here.