Who was Harry Morse ?

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks to a little old lady, who just passed away, I now have the history of a California church I had very little data on.

The clues in the email sent to me will provide direction on how to find more info on not only the history of the Oneness church in Turlock, but also on the movement and interaction of that church with other Oneness churches in pre WW2 California.

I am very excited

[Scott Pitta]

1918 article by Harry Morse

Wine of the Bible

THE WINE OF THE BIBLE When the subject came up as to the use of wine in the Lord's supper, I, like many others. would not accept it . This was the hardest for me to accept of the truths brought forth by Bro. Ewart and his staff. But I always would accept the plain word of God if it took my very head off, and as I took pains to pray as well as to look into the word of God and got some history on the subject, I was forced to admit as an honest man that the brethren were right and we grape juice folks were wrong. God help us in these days not to be afraid of the truth even if it does cross some of our old theories that are being proven to be weak and unscriptural. Therefore, I submit the following for your consideration. Before touching the supper let us first sec if the people of God used WINE in the Old and New Testament times in any sense. The Bible will be our court of appeals.

According to the best authority the two common Hebrew words used a.re "yayin" and . "tirosh," and the two Greek words in the New Testament are "oinos" and "gleukos." I understand the difference between the two are that "yayin" and "vinas" is fermented grape juice, having passed through the stage of fermentation, while "tirosh" and "gleukos" is the grape juice while young and new and in the stage of fermentation. It was this that the Jewa accused the apostles of being drunk on in Acts 2:13; this also steals away the heart (Has. 4: 11). 'While in this stage it is very drunkening. This new wine is put in new bottles or wineskins. (Matt. 9:17.) The wine that God's people used was the other, it was old wine, having passed through the stage of fermentation. If one drank too much of it. it would make them drunk, Among those who drank this kind (yayin) were the devout Noah (Gen. 9; 21·24), Abraham (Gen. 14:18), Lot (Gen. 19:32-34 ), and Isaac (Gen. 27 :25). These I refer to from the many in the Old Testament as they stand out and are referred to in the New Testament as being God's chosen ones as righteous, etc. I hear someone say, " But Brother .M., It was grape juice that they drank." Let us see. Noah drank a hit too much and he got drunk (Gen. 9: 21·2-1). Likewise Lot took a bit too much and he too got drunk (Gen. 19:32-34), Then it was not unfermented grape juice, was it ? Come now, be honest.



Let us look at the New Testament. The original is oinos. Among those who were permitted to use it were: Timothy (l Tim. 5:23) , Church deacons (l Tim. 3:8), and the aged widows who were on the church roll (Titus 2:3), and these widows ...... were to be among the most honorable (l Tim. 5:9·10), the deacons, also. Inasmuch as this would make people drunk if they drank too much, Paul writes to the Ephesian to be not drunk with wine, wherein is to excess (Eph. 5: 18). and to Timothy to only take a little ( l Tim, 5:23), and to both the deacons and the Godly widows not to take much. See proof, Titus 3:2 and 1 Tim. 3:8. If the word "oinos" used here was something like 'Welch's grape juice, as some try to believe, why all this admonition. Don't you know that you can use grape juice as you would milk and it would not harm you or make you drunk! Now-do U ,C·or·don't· U want·2 C! Let us not be swayed about by popular opinion, even popular Pentecostal opinion. Moderation is also the key to the OldTestament, viz. : "Who hath woe," etc. The answer is, "They that tarry LONG at the wine." (Prov. 23: 30.) There is a prohibition against certain kinds of wine and wine under certain conditions, viz.: The seeking of mixed wine, wine when it is RED, when it giveth its COLOR (red), and it moveth itself aright. (Prov. 23:30-31.) This simply refers to wine when young and in a state of fermentation, We are told that when wine ages that it turns darker and loses its red color. The teaching of modern prohibition is not taught in the word of God. There is also taught prohibition for Nazarites. There were two classes, viz.: Those born so from the womb--Sampson was one of this class-(Judges 13:5 and 16:17) and the mother as well was to abstain. (Judges 13 :2-7.) Then there was another class who were such by vow. (Num. 6:1·4.) While the vow was on they were not allowed to use wine, but neither were they allowed to use grape juice, grapes, raisins; in fact, they were to abstain from everything from the kernel to the husk. (Num.6:4.) John, being a Nazarite, he did not come eating and drinking. (Luke 7 :33,) When these Nazarites under the vow were through with it they could then use some wine. (Num. 6 :20.)

While wc see that the Bible gives us the privilege to use wine, with no argument against it, yet we believe it to be wisdom to carry out Paul's advice to abstain so as not to be a stumbling block (Rom. 14:21), but taking liberty to use it in the Lord's supper as it was used in those days. We see that it is deeply significant, in that it represents the death and resurrection of Jesus. His death is always with the thought or a resurrection. SPIRITS in wine and not the PUTREFACTiON is what symbolizes his resurrection. They evidently used wine in the church at Corinth, only they abused it by taking too much and became drunken. (I Cor. 1l:21·22.) While the word does not say anything in the Gospels as to what wns in the cup except the fruit of the vine, yet if the common use of wine was prevalent then we can easily believe that they used it, too, in the Lord's supper. Here is also a bit of history. I will first quote from the Archko Volume, which is quite popular among Bible students, even the more intelligent of the Pentecostal movement.

The following is from Caiiphas to Pontius Pilate who at that time was Governor over that part of the Roman empire, given to explain why he as High Priest had condemned Jesus of Nazareth to death. "

He has abrogated the ordinance given by God to Moses of the paschal supper, wherein we should roast a lamb and eat it with unleavened bread; but Jesus has introduced a custom altogether different without any Authority. He has introduced common bread and wine, which are not only forbidden, but are well qualified to excite men's passions and make them forget God rather than to trust Him, this feast having been introduced that we should remember to trust Him in the hours of trouble. 'When asked why He did this, all He would say was: Hitherto I work, and my Father works.' "- Archko Vol, page 115, also page 100. In short, let me say that it is only lately that God's people have commented using grape juice in the average church, and many. never have ceased the use of wine. Most of the old country churches continue to use it. Then why such a fuss because we use it ? Let us make all things according to the pattern (Reb. 8:5) then God will bless us more and more.- Harry Morse.

Article from The Present Truth. 1918. L. V. Roberts, editor.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

1918 article by Harry Morse

Wine of the Bible

THE WINE OF THE BIBLE When the subject came up as to the use of wine in the Lord's supper, I, like many others. would not accept it . This was the hardest for me to accept of the truths brought forth by Bro. Ewart and his staff. But I always would accept the plain word of God if it took my very head off, and as I took pains to pray as well as to look into the word of God and got some history on the subject, I was forced to admit as an honest man that the brethren were right and we grape juice folks were wrong. God help us in these days not to be afraid of the truth even if it does cross some of our old theories that are being proven to be weak and unscriptural. Therefore, I submit the following for your consideration. Before touching the supper let us first sec if the people of God used WINE in the Old and New Testament times in any sense. The Bible will be our court of appeals.

According to the best authority the two common Hebrew words used a.re "yayin" and . "tirosh," and the two Greek words in the New Testament are "oinos" and "gleukos." I understand the difference between the two are that "yayin" and "vinas" is fermented grape juice, having passed through the stage of fermentation, while "tirosh" and "gleukos" is the grape juice while young and new and in the stage of fermentation. It was this that the Jewa accused the apostles of being drunk on in Acts 2:13; this also steals away the heart (Has. 4: 11). 'While in this stage it is very drunkening. This new wine is put in new bottles or wineskins. (Matt. 9:17.) The wine that God's people used was the other, it was old wine, having passed through the stage of fermentation. If one drank too much of it. it would make them drunk, Among those who drank this kind (yayin) were the devout Noah (Gen. 9; 21·24), Abraham (Gen. 14:18), Lot (Gen. 19:32-34 ), and Isaac (Gen. 27 :25). These I refer to from the many in the Old Testament as they stand out and are referred to in the New Testament as being God's chosen ones as righteous, etc. I hear someone say, " But Brother .M., It was grape juice that they drank." Let us see. Noah drank a hit too much and he got drunk (Gen. 9: 21·2-1). Likewise Lot took a bit too much and he too got drunk (Gen. 19:32-34), Then it was not unfermented grape juice, was it ? Come now, be honest.



Let us look at the New Testament. The original is oinos. Among those who were permitted to use it were: Timothy (l Tim. 5:23) , Church deacons (l Tim. 3:8), and the aged widows who were on the church roll (Titus 2:3), and these widows ...... were to be among the most honorable (l Tim. 5:9·10), the deacons, also. Inasmuch as this would make people drunk if they drank too much, Paul writes to the Ephesian to be not drunk with wine, wherein is to excess (Eph. 5: 18). and to Timothy to only take a little ( l Tim, 5:23), and to both the deacons and the Godly widows not to take much. See proof, Titus 3:2 and 1 Tim. 3:8. If the word "oinos" used here was something like 'Welch's grape juice, as some try to believe, why all this admonition. Don't you know that you can use grape juice as you would milk and it would not harm you or make you drunk! Now-do U ,C·or·don't· U want·2 C! Let us not be swayed about by popular opinion, even popular Pentecostal opinion. Moderation is also the key to the OldTestament, viz. : "Who hath woe," etc. The answer is, "They that tarry LONG at the wine." (Prov. 23: 30.) There is a prohibition against certain kinds of wine and wine under certain conditions, viz.: The seeking of mixed wine, wine when it is RED, when it giveth its COLOR (red), and it moveth itself aright. (Prov. 23:30-31.) This simply refers to wine when young and in a state of fermentation, We are told that when wine ages that it turns darker and loses its red color. The teaching of modern prohibition is not taught in the word of God. There is also taught prohibition for Nazarites. There were two classes, viz.: Those born so from the womb--Sampson was one of this class-(Judges 13:5 and 16:17) and the mother as well was to abstain. (Judges 13 :2-7.) Then there was another class who were such by vow. (Num. 6:1·4.) While the vow was on they were not allowed to use wine, but neither were they allowed to use grape juice, grapes, raisins; in fact, they were to abstain from everything from the kernel to the husk. (Num.6:4.) John, being a Nazarite, he did not come eating and drinking. (Luke 7 :33,) When these Nazarites under the vow were through with it they could then use some wine. (Num. 6 :20.)

While wc see that the Bible gives us the privilege to use wine, with no argument against it, yet we believe it to be wisdom to carry out Paul's advice to abstain so as not to be a stumbling block (Rom. 14:21), but taking liberty to use it in the Lord's supper as it was used in those days. We see that it is deeply significant, in that it represents the death and resurrection of Jesus. His death is always with the thought or a resurrection. SPIRITS in wine and not the PUTREFACTiON is what symbolizes his resurrection. They evidently used wine in the church at Corinth, only they abused it by taking too much and became drunken. (I Cor. 1l:21·22.) While the word does not say anything in the Gospels as to what wns in the cup except the fruit of the vine, yet if the common use of wine was prevalent then we can easily believe that they used it, too, in the Lord's supper. Here is also a bit of history. I will first quote from the Archko Volume, which is quite popular among Bible students, even the more intelligent of the Pentecostal movement.

The following is from Caiiphas to Pontius Pilate who at that time was Governor over that part of the Roman empire, given to explain why he as High Priest had condemned Jesus of Nazareth to death. "

He has abrogated the ordinance given by God to Moses of the paschal supper, wherein we should roast a lamb and eat it with unleavened bread; but Jesus has introduced a custom altogether different without any Authority. He has introduced common bread and wine, which are not only forbidden, but are well qualified to excite men's passions and make them forget God rather than to trust Him, this feast having been introduced that we should remember to trust Him in the hours of trouble. 'When asked why He did this, all He would say was: Hitherto I work, and my Father works.' "- Archko Vol, page 115, also page 100. In short, let me say that it is only lately that God's people have commented using grape juice in the average church, and many. never have ceased the use of wine. Most of the old country churches continue to use it. Then why such a fuss because we use it ? Let us make all things according to the pattern (Reb. 8:5) then God will bless us more and more.- Harry Morse.

Article from The Present Truth. 1918. L. V. Roberts, editor.

You are seriously making me want to read through all 90 pages of your posts if you are posting articles as well reasoned and grounded in scripture like this.


And no...I dont drink so if anybody is going,"THE SIN HE DEFENDS IS THE SIN HES IN" can just stop.


I just appreciate truth of the Word in context is all...just refreshing...just like Welch's ;-)

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

1918 article by Harry Morse

Wine of the Bible

THE WINE OF THE BIBLE When the subject came up as to the use of wine in the Lord's supper, I, like many others. would not accept it . This was the hardest for me to accept of the truths brought forth by Bro. Ewart and his staff. But I always would accept the plain word of God if it took my very head off, and as I took pains to pray as well as to look into the word of God and got some history on the subject, I was forced to admit as an honest man that the brethren were right and we grape juice folks were wrong. God help us in these days not to be afraid of the truth even if it does cross some of our old theories that are being proven to be weak and unscriptural. Therefore, I submit the following for your consideration. Before touching the supper let us first sec if the people of God used WINE in the Old and New Testament times in any sense. The Bible will be our court of appeals.

According to the best authority the two common Hebrew words used a.re "yayin" and . "tirosh," and the two Greek words in the New Testament are "oinos" and "gleukos." I understand the difference between the two are that "yayin" and "vinas" is fermented grape juice, having passed through the stage of fermentation, while "tirosh" and "gleukos" is the grape juice while young and new and in the stage of fermentation. It was this that the Jewa accused the apostles of being drunk on in Acts 2:13; this also steals away the heart (Has. 4: 11). 'While in this stage it is very drunkening. This new wine is put in new bottles or wineskins. (Matt. 9:17.) The wine that God's people used was the other, it was old wine, having passed through the stage of fermentation. If one drank too much of it. it would make them drunk, Among those who drank this kind (yayin) were the devout Noah (Gen. 9; 21·24), Abraham (Gen. 14:18), Lot (Gen. 19:32-34 ), and Isaac (Gen. 27 :25). These I refer to from the many in the Old Testament as they stand out and are referred to in the New Testament as being God's chosen ones as righteous, etc. I hear someone say, " But Brother .M., It was grape juice that they drank." Let us see. Noah drank a hit too much and he got drunk (Gen. 9: 21·2-1). Likewise Lot took a bit too much and he too got drunk (Gen. 19:32-34), Then it was not unfermented grape juice, was it ? Come now, be honest.



Let us look at the New Testament. The original is oinos. Among those who were permitted to use it were: Timothy (l Tim. 5:23) , Church deacons (l Tim. 3:8), and the aged widows who were on the church roll (Titus 2:3), and these widows ...... were to be among the most honorable (l Tim. 5:9·10), the deacons, also. Inasmuch as this would make people drunk if they drank too much, Paul writes to the Ephesian to be not drunk with wine, wherein is to excess (Eph. 5: 18). and to Timothy to only take a little ( l Tim, 5:23), and to both the deacons and the Godly widows not to take much. See proof, Titus 3:2 and 1 Tim. 3:8. If the word "oinos" used here was something like 'Welch's grape juice, as some try to believe, why all this admonition. Don't you know that you can use grape juice as you would milk and it would not harm you or make you drunk! Now-do U ,C·or·don't· U want·2 C! Let us not be swayed about by popular opinion, even popular Pentecostal opinion. Moderation is also the key to the OldTestament, viz. : "Who hath woe," etc. The answer is, "They that tarry LONG at the wine." (Prov. 23: 30.) There is a prohibition against certain kinds of wine and wine under certain conditions, viz.: The seeking of mixed wine, wine when it is RED, when it giveth its COLOR (red), and it moveth itself aright. (Prov. 23:30-31.) This simply refers to wine when young and in a state of fermentation, We are told that when wine ages that it turns darker and loses its red color. The teaching of modern prohibition is not taught in the word of God. There is also taught prohibition for Nazarites. There were two classes, viz.: Those born so from the womb--Sampson was one of this class-(Judges 13:5 and 16:17) and the mother as well was to abstain. (Judges 13 :2-7.) Then there was another class who were such by vow. (Num. 6:1·4.) While the vow was on they were not allowed to use wine, but neither were they allowed to use grape juice, grapes, raisins; in fact, they were to abstain from everything from the kernel to the husk. (Num.6:4.) John, being a Nazarite, he did not come eating and drinking. (Luke 7 :33,) When these Nazarites under the vow were through with it they could then use some wine. (Num. 6 :20.)

While wc see that the Bible gives us the privilege to use wine, with no argument against it, yet we believe it to be wisdom to carry out Paul's advice to abstain so as not to be a stumbling block (Rom. 14:21), but taking liberty to use it in the Lord's supper as it was used in those days. We see that it is deeply significant, in that it represents the death and resurrection of Jesus. His death is always with the thought or a resurrection. SPIRITS in wine and not the PUTREFACTiON is what symbolizes his resurrection. They evidently used wine in the church at Corinth, only they abused it by taking too much and became drunken. (I Cor. 1l:21·22.) While the word does not say anything in the Gospels as to what wns in the cup except the fruit of the vine, yet if the common use of wine was prevalent then we can easily believe that they used it, too, in the Lord's supper. Here is also a bit of history. I will first quote from the Archko Volume, which is quite popular among Bible students, even the more intelligent of the Pentecostal movement.

The following is from Caiiphas to Pontius Pilate who at that time was Governor over that part of the Roman empire, given to explain why he as High Priest had condemned Jesus of Nazareth to death. "

He has abrogated the ordinance given by God to Moses of the paschal supper, wherein we should roast a lamb and eat it with unleavened bread; but Jesus has introduced a custom altogether different without any Authority. He has introduced common bread and wine, which are not only forbidden, but are well qualified to excite men's passions and make them forget God rather than to trust Him, this feast having been introduced that we should remember to trust Him in the hours of trouble. 'When asked why He did this, all He would say was: Hitherto I work, and my Father works.' "- Archko Vol, page 115, also page 100. In short, let me say that it is only lately that God's people have commented using grape juice in the average church, and many. never have ceased the use of wine. Most of the old country churches continue to use it. Then why such a fuss because we use it ? Let us make all things according to the pattern (Reb. 8:5) then God will bless us more and more.- Harry Morse.

Article from The Present Truth. 1918. L. V. Roberts, editor.

He has abrogated the ordinance given by God to Moses of the paschal supper, wherein we should roast a lamb and eat it with unleavened bread; but Jesus has introduced a custom altogether different without any Authority. He has introduced common bread and wine, which are not only forbidden, but are well qualified to excite men's passions and make them forget God rather than to trust Him, this feast having been introduced that we should remember to trust Him in the hours of trouble. 'When asked why He did this, all He would say was: Hitherto I work, and my Father works.' "


I was telling my wife about this and it hit me...they didnt roast a lamb because they already had THE Lamb.

[Scott Pitta]

I just conducted a phone interview with a guy who remembered Harry Morse.

Morse would not eat pork, citing the prohibitions in the Mosaic Law.

There was a core group of Azusa Street participants who were members who were also remembered for praying in the prayer room between services on Sunday. One of them was a Brother Johnson. Their spiritual energy was remembered 60 years afterwards.

Childhood memories are not the same as adult memories, but they are still of profound value.

[Scott Pitta]

I ran into an add in the Pentecostal Outlook from 1943. It was for a biography of Pentecostal minister I had never heard of.

One facebook chat later, I had a lead on finding a copy of the biography from the grandson of William Herbig.

Herbig had a ministry in Montana and the Dakotas before WW2.

[Scott Pitta]

I ran into an add in the Pentecostal Outlook from 1943. It was for a biography of Pentecostal minister I had never heard of.

One facebook chat later, I had a lead on finding a copy of the biography from the grandson of William Herbig.

Herbig had a ministry in Montana and the Dakotas before WW2.

[Scott Pitta]

The biography of Ralph V. Reynolds came in the post today.

But other than a picture of A. O. Moore, none of my persons of interest are in the book.

The beginning chapters of Reynold's life took place in Ontario, Canada. It does not look like he was in the same social circles of those I am tracking in California.

Lots of interesting pictures.

On the shelf it goes, with the other Oneness biographies.

[Scott Pitta]

Albert Frank Varnell was at the Azusa Street revival and was a member of the 1919 PAW. He Met William Booth Clibborn at the Apostolic Faith Mission at Azusa Street. Booth Clibborn ecouraged Varnell to enter the ministry.

1918-1919 he conducted revivals in Visalia, CA.

1920 Varnell, along with JJ Mundy conduct a revival in Hanford, Ca.

1020-1923 Varnell works with JJ Mundy and Fred Poole to establish the Pentecostal Church in Visalia.

1923-1924 Varnell moves to Vandalia, Illinois to pastor the Pentecostal Church there.


He would no longer minister in California. Instead, his ministry was in Illinois and Indiana. He would become one of the very first bishops of the PAW (1923).

He was a radio preacher, a publisher and served in various capacities in several Oneness organizations.

[Scott Pitta]

Albert Varnell became Oneness under the ministry of Frank Ewart while he pastored in Los Angeles. I figure it was in 1917.

Here is the quote from the Phenomenon of Pentecost:

“It was in the Seventh Street Mission that Evangelist Albert F. Varnell was convinced and was baptized into the name. He became a useful worker and many of the missions in the northern part of this state originated in his tent revivals.”

Varnell then travelled back to Visalia where he pastored the Pentecostal Mission. That was in 1919. By 1923, JJ Mundy and Fred Earl Poole, PAW ministers, were also working at the same mission.

Fred Earl Poole was at the Visalia Pentecostal Mission from 1918-1929. He then moved to Chico, Ca and died in 1931.