Tithing…Is it a command?

[jediwill83]

Proverbs 19:17He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.


If giving to the poor and having pity on the poor is lending to the Lord, what is not having pity on the poor, extorting them and oppressing them?

Aquila when I read it your post, this was the scripture that came to me.

By demanding tithes from the poor that should be going to help them, we have started a self sustaining cycle of curses.

Even though I tithe I do it not because I fear for my salvation but today Im just seeing things in a whole new way.

The small churches with pastors suffering from extreme poverty have been failed by churches around them that have not helped to lighten their burden.

In turn, those suffering pastors burden the congregation by extorting them for support using fear corrupting the reputation of God giving Him a bad name instead of being able to serve the needy in their churches and since the tithes are collected by threat of loss of salvation or curses, rhe tithes are a form of oppression and extortion...protection money which again perpetuates the curse.

[Tithesmeister]

[QUOTE=Spiritwarrior;1495737]You are correct, it does matter. Everyone should be paying their Tithes.
The Bible should be obeyed in it entirety.

If the Bible should be obeyed in it’s entirety, as you say, then tithes should be rendered in agricultural products only. Annnd. . . they should be eaten.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by peter83

I use this word in order to speak politely.
I mean that tithe is a TRADITION of men today. It is NOT a law. It was a law of old testament but never in the new.

Do you mean a tradition like this???

Matthew 15:9

But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

This verse is Jesus, addressing the Pharisees, concerning teaching their man-made, traditions, as God-breathed doctrine. If tithe is taught as a doctrine, (teaching and doctrine are pretty much synonymous), it would appear that this scripture would come into play. Pro-tithers will often retreat to calling it a principle, a custom, a tradition, a good idea, or even necessary for the survival of the church, etc.. If you teach for doctrine, a tradition of men, beware that you are not playing the part of the Pharisee.

I believe that the tithe that is taught today is nothing more than a tradition of men. It certainly bears no more resemblance to the Biblical tithe than you do to your your thirty second cousin, thrice removed. The doctrine of making it salvific, (i.e., if you do not tithe, it is impossible to be saved), is the part that brings with it the added charge of extortion. When added to the concept that the word of God nowhere affirms that pastors are entitled to a tithe, or that Gentiles/Christians are in any way required to, or even suggested to tithe, and they preach that we will be lost for not giving them a tithe that is unlike any tithe recorded in scripture, this would qualify as extortion. Furthermore, if you are desiring something that belongs to someone else, that is the classic definition of being . . . covetous, which is another characteristic of the . . . Pharisees. Jesus was not very proud of the Pharisees. (But woe unto you, Pharisees! . . .) Luke 11:42



1 Corinthians 6:10

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

It seems that the prevailing opinion of pro-tithers is that, "well, even if we are wrong, we'll still be alright". I just don't see it that way. It seems to me that if we can't support it with scripture, we should reject it as a tradition of men. If you read the list above in Corinthians 6:10, it seems that the covetous and the extortioners are not keeping very nice company (thieves, drunkards, and revilers). We don't typically make excuses for thieves and drunkards, so why do we do so for the covetous and extortioners?


What do you think?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Do you mean a tradition like this???

Matthew 15:9

But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

This verse is Jesus, addressing the Pharisees, concerning teaching their man-made, traditions, as God-breathed doctrine. If tithe is taught as a doctrine, (teaching and doctrine are pretty much synonymous), it would appear that this scripture would come into play. Pro-tithers will often retreat to calling it a principle, a custom, a tradition, a good idea, or even necessary for the survival of the church, etc.. If you teach for doctrine, a tradition of men, beware that you are not playing the part of the Pharisee.

I believe that the tithe that is taught today is nothing more than a tradition of men. It certainly bears no more resemblance to the Biblical tithe than you do to your your thirty second cousin, thrice removed. The doctrine of making it salvific, (i.e., if you do not tithe, it is impossible to be saved), is the part that brings with it the added charge of extortion. When added to the concept that the word of God nowhere affirms that pastors are entitled to a tithe, or that Gentiles/Christians are in any way required to, or even suggested to tithe, and they preach that we will be lost for not giving them a tithe that is unlike any tithe recorded in scripture, this would qualify as extortion. Furthermore, if you are desiring something that belongs to someone else, that is the classic definition of being . . . covetous, which is another characteristic of the . . . Pharisees. Jesus was not very proud of the Pharisees. (But woe unto you, Pharisees! . . .) Luke 11:42



1 Corinthians 6:10

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

It seems that the prevailing opinion of pro-tithers is that, "well, even if we are wrong, we'll still be alright". I just don't see it that way. It seems to me that if we can't support it with scripture, we should reject it as a tradition of men. If you read the list above in Corinthians 6:10, it seems that the covetous and the extortioners are not keeping very nice company (thieves, drunkards, and revilers). We don't typically make excuses for thieves and drunkards, so why do we do so for the covetous and extortioners?


What do you think?

I dont preach tithing...but i try to dont complicate too when they ask me to pay. In new testament we have to give! Jerusalem they gave ALL to the Apostles for the need of the gospel and for the poor.
Tithing sometimes was for the priest, for the poor and for the widows.

Anyway in my experience ,there is a church in my country that never asks for tithes. And compared to other churches this church today has , more buildings and most complete churches than all the others. In that churches no pastor get paid and the church is open everyday!
So without tithe many people gave much more for the church and without spending to feed preachers the church multiplied.

[Tithesmeister]

In new testament we have to give!

With all due respect I would like to point out to you that this statement is simply not true. When we say things like this we help perpetuate a false doctrine. I am not questioning your intentions. I believe you are sincere. The truth is that when we are filled with the Holy Ghost we will have a generous nature, because our sinful, selfish, human nature has been replaced with the Spirit of our generous LORD. However, this does not necessarily mean that we are able to give. The truth is that some of us will be receivers of the generosity and abundance of others. This is the New Testament way. Most of the teaching of the New Testament giving (post-crucifixion), is giving to the less fortunate. The examples of helping the widows, the poor saints, as well as the teaching, far outnumber the teaching and examples of giving to the ministry. It's true! It is, however not preached or taught nearly as much from the pulpit. I wonder why. I have said for a long time that perhaps if the widows had the microphone (pulpit), perhaps they would be receiving the tithes! If we teach New Testament giving, we should get our sources from the New Testament. We should be careful to be truthful, and use the scripture in proper context. How can we do any less than that?

There is scripture to support providing for the ministry in the New Testament as well, but it pales in comparison to the scripture to support providing to the widows and the poor saints. I do not believe that the amount of teaching, preaching or the amount of material support reflects this reality.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

In new testament we have to give!

With all due respect I would like to point out to you that this statement is simply not true. When we say things like this we help perpetuate a false doctrine. I am not questioning your intentions. I believe you are sincere. The truth is that when we are filled with the Holy Ghost we will have a generous nature, because our sinful, selfish, human nature has been replaced with the Spirit of our generous LORD. However, this does not necessarily mean that we are able to give. The truth is that some of us will be receivers of the generosity and abundance of others. This is the New Testament way. Most of the teaching of the New Testament giving (post-crucifixion), is giving to the less fortunate. The examples of helping the widows, the poor saints, as well as the teaching, far outnumber the teaching and examples of giving to the ministry. It's true! It is, however not preached or taught nearly as much from the pulpit. I wonder why. I have said for a long time that perhaps if the widows had the microphone (pulpit), perhaps they would be receiving the tithes! If we teach New Testament giving, we should get our sources from the New Testament. We should be careful to be truthful, and use the scripture in proper context. How can we do any less than that?

There is scripture to support providing for the ministry in the New Testament as well, but it pales in comparison to the scripture to support providing to the widows and the poor saints. I do not believe that the amount of teaching, preaching or the amount of material support reflects this reality.

Οκ ,my understanding is that a pastor,preaches,teacher etc should work with their own hands.
This what we call today money for ministry is not the real necessaries.
Give to the poor is mentioned many many times to the bible.
Anyway i told you that in my country there is a church that never asks for tithes ,neither pastors get paid and is the bigest church with many and nice buildings too.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by peter83

Οκ ,my understanding is that a pastor,preaches,teacher etc should work with their own hands.
This what we call today money for ministry is not the real necessaries.
Give to the poor is mentioned many many times to the bible.
Anyway i told you that in my country there is a church that never asks for tithes ,neither pastors get paid and is the bigest church with many and nice buildings too.

There is a myth circulating, that the church cannot survive without the tithe. Your comment is evidence that this is not true. Many organizations including churches survive without tithes. The “Church of Christ” does not teach tithing, and has survived for many years. John Mcarthar leads a church of maybe twenty thousand with no tithes. If we are part of the true church, the one that Jesus said “the gates of hell would not prevail against”, we should not worry about whether or not we can survive. The Church did survive for about five hundred plus years without a tithe. It survived about 1800 years without a tithe of money. The fastest growing the church has ever had was during a period of time when they did not teach tithing. But we have been led to believe that tithing is crucial to the survival of the church!

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

There is a myth circulating, that the church cannot survive without the tithe. Your comment is evidence that this is not true. Many organizations including churches survive without tithes. The “Church of Christ” does not teach tithing, and has survived for many years. John Mcarthar leads a church of maybe twenty thousand with no tithes. If we are part of the true church, the one that Jesus said “the gates of hell would not prevail against”, we should not worry about whether or not we can survive. The Church did survive for about five hundred plus years without a tithe. It survived about 1800 years without a tithe of money. The fastest growing the church has ever had was during a period of time when they did not teach tithing. But we have been led to believe that tithing is crucial to the survival of the church!

Ι do not want to give you statistics at public but look one thing:
I my country (a small country about 10 mil) while all tithing churches have about maximum 15 churches each one of them. The trinitarian pentecostal church that does not accept tithing has about 150 buildings!
The result of no tithing was that people bring money, even houses willingly for the purpose of the church growth!
An the result of pastors refuse to get paid brings that all money is just used for church building and poor feeding.
God bless you!

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by peter83

Ι do not want to give you statistics at public but look one thing:
I my country (a small country about 10 mil) while all tithing churches have about maximum 15 churches each one of them. The trinitarian pentecostal church that does not accept tithing has about 150 buildings!
The result of no tithing was that people bring money, even houses willingly for the purpose of the church growth!
An the result of pastors refuse to get paid brings that all money is just used for church building and poor feeding.
God bless you!

Your testimony is encouraging to me. Thank you for sharing. Here in the U.S.A., we have allowed our churches to follow the model of capitalism that has been such a great impact on our nation. It is wonderful for a nation, for a church? I'm afraid not so much.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Your testimony is encouraging to me. Thank you for sharing. Here in the U.S.A., we have allowed our churches to follow the model of capitalism that has been such a great impact on our nation. It is wonderful for a nation, for a church? I'm afraid not so much.

Define "capitalism".