Oneness vs Monotheism

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If the Father did not become the Son who is this talking about?

1 Tim. 3:16

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It SEEMS to me that the Father became the Son while ALSO remaining the Father. In other words he was living in two modes of being SIMULTANEOUSLY.

First of all you will never find a verse that says : God became a man.(except 'the Word became Flesh" but this is what means Word)
Second ,you will not find a verse ,when Jesus lived ,that said "i am the Father" Not even one!
Instinct ,all the Bible and even the gospel of John says:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
All the revelation of that Mistery is that Jesus is the Son of God. That was the revelation of all saint ,even Peter said "You are the Christ(means Anointed) the Son of the Living God"
That is why John found it so important to say :and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1 John.) and
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If you bel;ieve the Son was not actually whaty it sayd, but the Father pretending ,actoring,palying roles, or changing modes..or even became a man. The Gos is a lier and he have not Son? Or how then you believe that Jesus is the Son? If was his own Father why he never said that? Why all saints say that our felloship is with the Father and His Son, why not just "with Jesus Chrsit"
God was manifest IN flesh
God was IN his Son
God spoke THROUGH His Son
All the fullness of Deity dwells IN Jesus in bodily form
That form ,that body ,that flesh is the Son.
Even Jesus said i am the Son, Apostles ,Scripture ,even God gave this testimony about His Son!!! Do you believe him?
God (which is unseen) manifest (became visible) in(dwells in him) flesh (Son) Great mystery . God di not became flesh!

Now the other thing is that Jesus (yes the man,and manifestation of God)inheritance His glory .His deity (Father)If was not the Son, who is giving inheritance to whom? To his self?
Is the same the anointer with he that receives the anointing?
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who gave to whom (i dont ask for answer to me )
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Who overcame the world? Why we (Christians) overcome the world only if we believe that Jesus the man did?
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Not an angel, not a second god, not God himself, not e mere man, but the man Jesus Christ. Because He "tempted like us" but God "can not be tempted" at all.

(if you come back to the doctrine of Christ when you will also understand and be able to explain ,those verse:
"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (3-4 times Peter and Paul prayed this)
You will have more knowledge for our God and Lord Jesus . Because is written to grow more and more in knowledge of the Son of God. Only through the Son we can know the Father.

I pray "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him"Ephes.1:17

[Michael The Disciple]

So yes, Monotheism, Oneness, and Modalism are all true.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So yes, Monotheism, Oneness, and Modalism are all true.

Only one is truth, So Oneness is false if we mean :
Father is his son is false ,thurh is God was in His Son
Jesus is a mode of existence of God is false-A mode does not love the other mode.
Father at Creation,Son at redemption ,Spirit now is false-Because Father spoke woth Son and Son send the Holy Spirit.
Son is a role of God is false- God does not playing the actor.we have a real Father-Son relationship
God became man is false-God was inside that man
Jesus was the spirit in bodily form false-Jesus took the promise of the Spirit.
etc..."small" things but very dangerous..Jesus is the Son of God (that was and is the revelation all the saint receive)

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by peter83

First of all you will never find a verse that says : God became a man.(except 'the Word became Flesh" but this is what means Word)
Second ,you will not find a verse ,when Jesus lived ,that said "i am the Father" Not even one!
Instinct ,all the Bible and even the gospel of John says:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
All the revelation of that Mistery is that Jesus is the Son of God. That was the revelation of all saint ,even Peter said "You are the Christ(means Anointed) the Son of the Living God"
That is why John found it so important to say :and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1 John.) and
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If you bel;ieve the Son was not actually whaty it sayd, but the Father pretending ,actoring,palying roles, or changing modes..or even became a man. The Gos is a lier and he have not Son? Or how then you believe that Jesus is the Son? If was his own Father why he never said that? Why all saints say that our felloship is with the Father and His Son, why not just "with Jesus Chrsit"
God was manifest IN flesh
God was IN his Son
God spoke THROUGH His Son
All the fullness of Deity dwells IN Jesus in bodily form
That form ,that body ,that flesh is the Son.
Even Jesus said i am the Son, Apostles ,Scripture ,even God gave this testimony about His Son!!! Do you believe him?
God (which is unseen) manifest (became visible) in(dwells in him) flesh (Son) Great mystery . God di not became flesh!

Now the other thing is that Jesus (yes the man,and manifestation of God)inheritance His glory .His deity (Father)If was not the Son, who is giving inheritance to whom? To his self?
Is the same the anointer with he that receives the anointing?
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who gave to whom (i dont ask for answer to me )
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Who overcame the world? Why we (Christians) overcome the world only if we believe that Jesus the man did?
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Not an angel, not a second god, not God himself, not e mere man, but the man Jesus Christ. Because He "tempted like us" but God "can not be tempted" at all.

(if you come back to the doctrine of Christ when you will also understand and be able to explain ,those verse:
"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (3-4 times Peter and Paul prayed this)
You will have more knowledge for our God and Lord Jesus . Because is written to grow more and more in knowledge of the Son of God. Only through the Son we can know the Father.

I pray "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him"Ephes.1:17

It seems your line of thinking is that Jesus was just a man that the Spirit of God was in. That is not the case with Jesus. He was not just a man that was filled with the Holy Ghost. He was God in flesh. Not just "in" flesh as you may stress inside but rather God having become a man. You are lacking this understanding.

If your teaching that Jesus only had God on the inside and is not visible you must define your position concerning John 1:14 ....and the word was made flesh.. what was made flesh? Is the word spirit? Does the verse say "the word was "in" flesh?

Also you will need to define what it means for Jesus to be the image of the invisible God Colosians 1:15.

Again share your doctrine concerning Jesus telling Philip "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

Is Jesus The Lord or is The Lord in Jesus?

When you see Jesus do you see God?

When the disciples saw Jesus did they see God?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It seems your line of thinking is that Jesus was just a man that the Spirit of God was in. That is not the case with Jesus. He was not just a man that was filled with the Holy Ghost. He was God in flesh. Not just "in" flesh as you may stress inside but rather God having become a man. You are lacking this understanding.

1)If your teaching that Jesus only had God on the inside and is not visible you must define your position concerning John 1:14 ....and the word was made flesh.. what was made flesh? Is the word spirit? Does the verse say "the word was "in" flesh?

2)Also you will need to define what it means for Jesus to be the image of the invisible God Colosians 1:15.

3)Again share your doctrine concerning Jesus telling Philip "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

4)Is Jesus The Lord or is The Lord in Jesus?

5)When you see Jesus do you see God?

When the disciples saw Jesus did they see God?

1) The Word (the reason) was God himself. So the plan of God became flesh.
God was in that flesh.
I dont said Jesus was a simple man. Jesus is the Son of God. No other man is like Jesus,born directly from Him.
God was in Him, made all things through him and for him
So all things made by Jesus,through Jesus and for Jesus
The man is the Son.The Son said "Father is in me" "Father and I we are One" but never said the NONSENSE that "i am the Father" NEVER .
2) Is the Father his own image then ? NO! The Son is the omage of the INVISIBLE God. "who ever see me ,he sees the Father"
3)Philip saw Jesus after resurrection and saw His God (He is the image of the invisible God) . Is like me nad you..Jesus is our Lord God ,our Father.
But that does not violate scriptures to say that the Son is the Ftaher, NO!
All revelation is upon Peter revelation "You are Christ,the Son of the Loving God" ans Jesus builed His Church upon that stone!
The Gospel of John finishes like :"All that is written to believe that Jesus is the Son of God" ...So we must dont violate that Truth, Because we are that stoene! "God manifest in flesh" That is serious! God came in His Son!!!!!!!!"Only h who has the Son has the Father" "He who now have the doctrine of *Christ* does not have God,but he who hold that doctrine has both the Father and The Son" **Christ means Annonied..God anoints ,man receive anointing. God did not got anointing from anyone. right? or you want to tell me now that God anointed himself?
4)Yes ofcourse is my Lord, but how? Acts 2"36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. " Yes, also he "receive the name above all name" who gave and to whom?
Also he said "all power upon earh and sky is given to me"Who gave to whom brother?
4)Jesu said "who ever sees me he sees the Father" and also as you saw above, Jesus receive from His Father all the glory. He is at the right (power-glory) of Gid
The Spirit is Jesus himself. He is my Father and did all things by and for His Son. That is becuse he saw hem nad pre-knew him. He knew his obediense and his work for our sins,his death but also his glory. So all what he did was through Him. He is the Word (reason) for all. God used a "body" in the Old testament. Nobody saw God but all saw a body. That manifestation is Jesus.
He could remain like that, Spirit and whenever he wanted he could manifest with that body and "wrsetl" as did with Jakob, "eat" as did with Abraham etc. But like that we could not have remission of sins.
So he manifest in flesh. That flesh was not like before he manifested, becuse we need a man to die for our sins. So he dei his son (is that body he always was and is) and then man walked on earth just like me and you. He was the form of God but he was so obedience to His God that died for us.
He did not have sin ,His Father was God, but he complete the law for us.
He died for us and then took all that glory God given him before the worlds "Father, now glorify me with thy yourself,the glory which i had before the word"
He is and was and will be the manifestation of God. The only reason there is a distinction is becuse oyr sins. That is why we have Father and Son.
Again, Father could remain like he is (a spirit with a glorified body) even without the Son was born, but he had to do for our sins.
So yes,that body,that man, receive his glory from God.He is my Lord God and my Father.

The difference is how. If you beleive that the Son is not so real ,but is a mode of God, or a role, or an office,or Father himself pretending to be man,or son the God and anything like that ,then you dont believe what God said about His Son. (not you,personal..for everyone who believes that nonsense)
Amen brother ? If you still dont get me, please go and search even a single vers that Jesus daid "i am my Father" not even one verse! Why? Because all the revelation is "that Jesus is the Son of God" Jesus took the name of His Father by inheritance.
WHY THE GOSPEL OF JOHN WASS WRITTEN?
John 20:31these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
WHAT WE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
WHO IS THAT SPIRIT WE HAVE IN US? (God in his Son)
1 John 1:and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
WHAT OF YOU DONT BELIEVE HE IS 100% THE SON?
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
WHO WIN THE WOLD?The man Jesys wan that world 1st for us and so we will:
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Sorry for the large message brother.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by peter83

1) the word (the reason) was god himself. So the plan of god became flesh.
God was in that flesh.
I dont said jesus was a simple man. Jesus is the son of god. No other man is like jesus,born directly from him.
God was in him, made all things through him and for him
so all things made by jesus,through jesus and for jesus
the man is the son.the son said "father is in me" "father and i we are one" but never said the nonsense that "i am the father" never .

so you dont believe jesus is the father?

2) is the father his own image then ? no! The son is the omage of the invisible god. "who ever see me ,he sees the father"

god through the incarnation became the visible image of the invisible spirit. Born of a woman the spirit "father" became the "son"

3)philip saw jesus after resurrection and saw his god (he is the image of the invisible god) . Is like me nad you..jesus is our lord god ,our father.

this was before the resurrection not after. You say jesus is our god, our father. Why cant you say also jesus is the father?

but that does not violate scriptures to say that the son is the ftaher, no!
All revelation is upon peter revelation "you are christ,the son of the loving god" ans jesus builed his church upon that stone!
The gospel of john finishes like :"all that is written to believe that jesus is the son of god" ...so we must dont violate that truth, because we are that stoene! "god manifest in flesh" that is serious! God came in his son!!!!!!!!"only h who has the son has the father" "he who now have the doctrine of *christ* does not have god,but he who hold that doctrine has both the father and the son" **christ means annonied..god anoints ,man receive anointing. God did not got anointing from anyone. Right? Or you want to tell me now that god anointed himself?
4)yes ofcourse is my lord, but how? acts 2"36 "therefore let all the house of israel know assuredly, that god hath made that same jesus, whom ye have crucified, both lord and christ. " yes, also he "receive the name above all name" who gave and to whom?
Also he said "all power upon earh and sky is given to me"who gave to whom brother?

you ask but how, there is only one lord and jesus is lord jesus is god.


4)jesu said "who ever sees me he sees the father" and also as you saw above, jesus receive from his father all the glory. He is at the right (power-glory) of gid
the spirit is jesus himself. He is my father and did all things by and for his son. That is becuse he saw hem nad pre-knew him. He knew his obediense and his work for our sins,his death but also his glory. So all what he did was through him. He is the word (reason) for all. God used a "body" in the old testament. Nobody saw god but all saw a body. That manifestation is jesus.
He could remain like that, spirit and whenever he wanted he could manifest with that body and "wrsetl" as did with jakob, "eat" as did with abraham etc. But like that we could not have remission of sins.
So he manifest in flesh. That flesh was not like before he manifested, becuse we need a man to die for our sins. So he dei his son (is that body he always was and is) and then man walked on earth just like me and you. He was the form of god but he was so obedience to his god that died for us.
He did not have sin ,his father was god, but he complete the law for us.
He died for us and then took all that glory god given him before the worlds "father, now glorify me with thy yourself,the glory which i had before the word"
he is and was and will be the manifestation of god. The only reason there is a distinction is becuse oyr sins. That is why we have father and son.
Again, father could remain like he is (a spirit with a glorified body) even without the son was born, but he had to do for our sins.
So yes,that body,that man, receive his glory from god.he is my lord god and my father.

The difference is how. If you beleive that the son is not so real ,but is a mode of god, or a role, or an office,or father himself pretending to be man,or son the god and anything like that ,then you dont believe what god said about his son. (not you,personal..for everyone who believes that nonsense)

i do not believe in modes, offices, pretending.

amen brother ? If you still dont get me, please go and search even a single vers that jesus daid "i am my father" not even one verse! Why? Because all the revelation is "that jesus is the son of god" jesus took the name of his father by inheritance.
Why the gospel of john wass written?
john 20:31these are written, that ye might believe that jesus is the christ, the son of god; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
what we must believe to be saved?
acts 8:37 and philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, i believe that jesus christ is the son of god.
who is that spirit we have in us? (god in his son)
1 john 1:and truly our fellowship [is] with the father, and with his son jesus christ.
what of you dont believe he is 100% the son?
9 whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of christ, hath not god. he that abideth in the doctrine of christ, he hath both the father and the son.
who win the wold?the man jesys wan that world 1st for us and so we will:
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that jesus is the son of god?
who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that jesus is the son of god?

sorry for the large message brother.

no one is saying jesus is not the son of god. But he is more he is the one spirit of god manifest in the flesh. God made visible.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

no one is saying jesus is not the son of god. But he is more he is the one spirit of god manifest in the flesh. God made visible.

So God did not came AS Son..AS man...he came in a real man .IN His Son.Real simple Son.All things made BY Him.
Some say he is "the fathers as the sin" or "a mode" or a "role of God" etc. So they dont believe is The Son of God.
look everyone confess Jesus is the son, but they say "is the eternal sion" others "god the son" others "god visible" "an angel"etc.
No! Son means just the human Jesus Christ who is born of God and Mary. He was anointed so with the Spirit.That is the mystery and the doctrine of Christ. Is important to know him because only through the Son we can know the Father (more and more to grow on that knowledge)

An other reason is because like John said "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" So we have victory only through His Son,by know him we know the Father and by fallow his example!!!!!!!He is our example.
It was not a god,an angel ,an other being half god,or even our Father that TEMPTED by Satan and won!!!! He was the man Jesus ,our example.
He was because was the Son (like we are today sons and daughters) and He gad the Spirit (like we have today too) "without measure of course"
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
God can not be tempted by anyone.."for God cannot be tempted with evil"
But the Son:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
8 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
So he prayed :"22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: he gave that glory (of the son) to us!!!!!
And he took the glory whcich had as "logos" in the mind of God from the beginning. (that "visible body who walked,fought,ought etc.)
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Again,Hallelujah to God.
So we have now that promise from him: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

be lioke His Son then by know him more and more. God did not died neither was rempted by satan..but our eexample did,so we can do it now. (although To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. God shed on His own blood)

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by peter83

So God did not came AS Son..AS man...he came in a real man .IN His Son.Real simple Son.All things made BY Him.
Some say he is "the fathers as the sin" or "a mode" or a "role of God" etc. So they dont believe is The Son of God.
look everyone confess Jesus is the son, but they say "is the eternal sion" others "god the son" others "god visible" "an angel"etc.
No! Son means just the human Jesus Christ who is born of God and Mary. He was anointed so with the Spirit.That is the mystery and the doctrine of Christ. Is important to know him because only through the Son we can know the Father (more and more to grow on that knowledge)

An other reason is because like John said "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" So we have victory only through His Son,by know him we know the Father and by fallow his example!!!!!!!He is our example.
It was not a god,an angel ,an other being half god,or even our Father that TEMPTED by Satan and won!!!! He was the man Jesus ,our example.
He was because was the Son (like we are today sons and daughters) and He gad the Spirit (like we have today too) "without measure of course"
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
God can not be tempted by anyone.."for God cannot be tempted with evil"
But the Son:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
8 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
So he prayed :"22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: he gave that glory (of the son) to us!!!!!
And he took the glory whcich had as "logos" in the mind of God from the beginning. (that "visible body who walked,fought,ought etc.)
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Again,Hallelujah to God.
So we have now that promise from him: To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

be lioke His Son then by know him more and more. God did not died neither was rempted by satan..but our eexample did,so we can do it now. (although To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. God shed on His own blood)

correct no mode or role of God. But the scripture does say Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

Tell me, what would it look like if God became a man and that man died for the sins of mankind?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

correct no mode or role of God. But the scripture does say Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

Tell me, what would it look like if God became a man and that man died for the sins of mankind?

Υou have make God liar ,becuse He gave testimony for his Son.
All the Bible told us to believe to his Son. Even He said "Hi is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." do yopu want to please God? Be like His Son.

God is not die. Bible says: "God is NOT a man"

Yoy dont have to win like He did, because you will say "He was in flesh,he could do everything, but me, i am just a human". The truth is the man Jesus lived perfect because was the Son of God and so you now are the son "he gave us his glory".

Thats enough, and especially the first one is direct principle from Scripture.
How many times toy preached "God gave him self" God died for us" and other nonsense* while you could just preach what Apostles teach about The Son Of God?
What is so difficult to say the Truth? You know why? Because exactly like trinitarians receive the Spirit and from that moment they know Jesus is God but then they have trouble explain it ,the same happens to many "oneness" .
They can not brake it down from Scripture with Bible words onl;y and say HOW Jesus is God? You know He is but dont know how.

*sorry i said nonsense becuse if that man was God himself then He prayed to himself? He was obedient to whom? (Son to his Father, Flesh to the Spirit, the flesh was not God, the Spirit was. That is why he prayed and was obedient)

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by peter83

Υou have make God liar ,becuse He gave testimony for his Son.
All the Bible told us to believe to his Son. Even He said "Hi is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." do yopu want to please God? Be like His Son.

God is not die. Bible says: "God is NOT a man"

Yoy dont have to win like He did, because you will say "He was in flesh,he could do everything, but me, i am just a human". The truth is the man Jesus lived perfect because was the Son of God and so you now are the son "he gave us his glory".

Thats enough, and especially the first one is direct principle from Scripture.
How many times toy preached "God gave him self" God died for us" and other nonsense* while you could just preach what Apostles teach about The Son Of God?
What is so difficult to say the Truth? You know why? Because exactly like trinitarians receive the Spirit and from that moment they know Jesus is God but then they have trouble explain it ,the same happens to many "oneness" .
They can not brake it down from Scripture with Bible words onl;y and say HOW Jesus is God? You know He is but dont know how.

*sorry i said nonsense becuse if that man was God himself then He prayed to himself? He was obedient to whom? (Son to his Father, Flesh to the Spirit, the flesh was not God, the Spirit was. That is why he prayed and was obedient)

Do you mean like this kind of nonsense?

Acts 20:28
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.