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  #71  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:42 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Females in pants is cross dressing
For all cultures at all times?
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  #72  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:42 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
But don’t worry, they want gender as optional.

Ship is sinking boys and girls.
Who is "they"?
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  #73  
Old 06-21-2019, 08:43 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
It's interesting how the UPC standard of dress differs for women in India than in North America or other places, due to an allowance for "culture."

For women in certain areas of India, the traditional dress or culture is Salwaar Kameez -- which are loose trousers that are narrow at the ankles and a tunic.

This is acceptable to the UPC in India and women are not condemned for wearing pants there.

I don't understand this. If it's custom and culture for women in India to wear pants, it's certainly modern culture for women in America to do the same.

If the UPC is pointing to Deut 22:5 as the biblical basis for prohibition of pants on women, then why wouldn't it apply to all women, everywhere?
Good point. I agree with you. I'm pretty sure, though, that one response would be something like this: India is a non-Western nation. They never had the distinction between pants and skirts that Western countries had, so there is no issue with them wearing pants. Western nations no longer have the traditional distinction because feminists and other anti-God forces undermined godly principles in Western nations, and so it wasn't just a benign cultural development but a hostile takeover.

The ultimate problem to me regarding this line of thinking is that proponents seem to arbitrarily decide that pants and skirts must be the traditional Western distinction, as if there have never been any other options in the history of Western civilization. David Bernard I believe asserts that in Western nations, the distinction between pants and skirts arose during the middle ages. So this was an innovation. Why stop there? Why not look to Greece and Rome since they were the fount of Western civ, where men and women wore skirt like garments. The point is, you never can get away from the idea of cultural change. Nothing is set in stone.
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  #74  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:04 PM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is online now
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

Deut 22:5 says nothing about pants or dresses.

We don't know enough about the cultural context of the setting of Deuteronomy to be adamant about what Moses was referring to.
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  #75  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:06 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Make a list of all abominations. Enforce them all. Why just one ?

No one in the NT made a big deal out of the word abomination.

Nor was it an issue at the Council of Jerusalem.
Without a quote from a post, I'm not sure who or what your specifically responding to, but I want to make sure I understand your position.

Do you see no distinction between an abomination to the Lord and one to the Israelites?

Are you saying that the NT writers had no interest in OT moral abominations?

As EB has noted, the primary issue at the council was circumcision, and so many issues--moral issues--were not issues at the council. Are you saying that only the OT laws regarding sexual immorality are still relevant since only those are affirmed at the council?
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  #76  
Old 06-21-2019, 09:11 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Deut 22:5 says nothing about pants or dresses.

We don't know enough about the cultural context of the setting of Deuteronomy to be adamant about what Moses was referring to.
I think this is correct. Unfortunately. I wish there were more details, if anything to eliminate all the various interpretations that are imposed on people.

This idea brings us back to what I've been trying to say in a couple of other posts, including the first one: Deut 22:5 is ambiguous; therefore, other verses have to be put forth to support the no pants on women teaching. As I've thought about it more, I can't recall other verses that might be used.
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  #77  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:55 AM
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Good point. I agree with you. I'm pretty sure, though, that one response would be something like this: India is a non-Western nation. They never had the distinction between pants and skirts that Western countries had, so there is no issue with them wearing pants. Western nations no longer have the traditional distinction because feminists and other anti-God forces undermined godly principles in Western nations, and so it wasn't just a benign cultural development but a hostile takeover.

The ultimate problem to me regarding this line of thinking is that proponents seem to arbitrarily decide that pants and skirts must be the traditional Western distinction, as if there have never been any other options in the history of Western civilization. David Bernard I believe asserts that in Western nations, the distinction between pants and skirts arose during the middle ages. So this was an innovation. Why stop there? Why not look to Greece and Rome since they were the fount of Western civ, where men and women wore skirt like garments. The point is, you never can get away from the idea of cultural change. Nothing is set in stone.



India was HEAVILY colonized by the West namely the British empire. They got all kinds of exposure to Western culture.
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  #78  
Old 06-22-2019, 05:38 AM
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

The idea of "abominations" being a certain type of sin is foreign to the Bible. Abomination simply means "detestable" or "ceremonially unclean". Writers of the NT never made the claim that "abomination" had a special meaning or classification.

The primary issue at the Council of Jerusalem centered around the obligations of gentile believers be circumcised and to obey the Law of Moses. The decision made was no, circumcision is not required and no, believers are not required to obey the law of Moses.

We have no obligations to the law of Moses. The law served several purposes and all of them have been fulfilled.

All the rules in the law of Moses were moral rules. None of them are morally binding today.

Rape is a sin today. But not because it is spelled out in the law of Moses. Theft and lying are a sin today, but not because they are mentioned as such by Moses.

Some of the law has been replaced and the opposite has been taught instead.

"Love your neighbor and hate your enemy" has been replaced by "love your enemies"

"Eye for an eye" has been replaced by "do not resist an evil person"

"Do not break your oath" is replaced by "do not swear an oath at all"

The new covenant is better than the old one.
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  #79  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:43 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
For all cultures at all times?
Who cares about "cultures?"

There are "cultures" who believe in female circumcision.

Scarification tattooing on female children.

Cultures which wear plates in their bottom lip, and bones through their noses.

The culture we follow is the Judean/Israelite culture which was part of the remnant which is the church. Women look and ACT like women, men look and act like men. You have over 2,000 years of females wearing long loose flowing clothing, and men ONLY being the military. What you have now in this culture is an avalanche of soy boys and butch girls. Also the new advent of genderless teens.

Have fun, while you debate this issue into the ground. Because the "culture:' round your churches have assimilated you into the Borg.
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  #80  
Old 06-22-2019, 07:57 AM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Women Wearing Pants

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/k...ry?id=60582252
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