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  #21  
Old 07-12-2019, 08:37 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

TGP

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In both instances, the unbeliever is separated from God's presence for all eternity. I'm struggling to see the significance of this teaching...
If you really believed one of these would be tormented daily for trillions and trillions and trillions of years, ever burning in the fires you would see the difference if one suffered according to his own sin and then passed out of life into the blackness of darkness.
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:32 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
TGP



If you really believed one of these would be tormented daily for trillions and trillions and trillions of years, ever burning in the fires you would see the difference if one suffered according to his own sin and then passed out of life into the blackness of darkness.

Matthew 28:10

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Just take the scripture for what it says. Does it say that God WILL destroy the soul in hell? No it does not. It clearly says, " Fear Him WHO IS ABLE to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Perhaps Gods definition of Destroy, Death, and Forever are completely different than ours, how are we to know? If God tells you Himself then you will have divine revelation of the text for yourself, and most likely no one will believe your divine revelation, that's the way it is.

I received divine revelation from God about what Death means, and it means eternal separation from God. That's what I believe and I can't make anybody else believe what I received from God.
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Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:40 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by coksiw View Post
[Rev 14:11 KJV] 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Could you guys please explain this one?
They are burnt, and the smoke ascends forever. They do not last forever, rather their doom is forever, it is permanent.

The not having rest day or night applies to those who worship the beast and his image and who receive his mark. That lack of rest occurs during their lifetime of worshipping the beast etc. They have no rest day or night means they have no assurance of salvation, for Jesus says "come to Me and you will find rest." Those who have no rest are those who worship (present tense) the beast etc. Thus, the lack of rest occurs during their lifetime of idolatry and rebellion.

Remember, too, this is a vision John is seeing, so the imagery is symbolic and represents something.
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Last edited by Esaias; 07-13-2019 at 12:12 AM.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:51 PM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
What is the significance of this teaching?

In other words, if a person believes asserts unbelievers will be in the lake of fire for eternity as opposed to being there for "a certain amount of time", what difference does it make?

In both instances, the unbeliever is separated from God's presence for all eternity. I'm struggling to see the significance of this teaching...
The significance is that it is the truth. What is significance of insisting water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is part of the new birth, that it the meaning of "born of water"? After all, many oneness pentecostals believe one is born again at repentance, and reject the idea that baptism is "born of water", yet they baptise converts in the same name we do, so in both cases people get baptised in the saving name. So what is the significance? That it is the truth, that is the significance.

Moreover, conditional immortality (only the saved will live forever, not the wicked and unbelievers) stands opposed to the doctrine of the serpent, that "You shall not surely die." To believe all humans are naturally already immortal is pure pagan religion, straight from the serpent's mouth in the Garden.

This truth affirms the glory of God, that God alone has immortality, and that He gives Eternal Life to all in Christ - and ONLY to them, for he that does not believe shall not see Life.

It also assures the believer that sin, evil, and enmity against God will be purged from His Creation eventually.
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:19 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post
Matthew 28:10

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Just take the scripture for what it says. Does it say that God WILL destroy the soul in hell? No it does not. It clearly says, " Fear Him WHO IS ABLE to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Perhaps Gods definition of Destroy, Death, and Forever are completely different than ours, how are we to know? If God tells you Himself then you will have divine revelation of the text for yourself, and most likely no one will believe your divine revelation, that's the way it is.

I received divine revelation from God about what Death means, and it means eternal separation from God. That's what I believe and I can't make anybody else believe what I received from God.
Jesus taught the fear of God. When he gave this teaching that God can kill/destroy the soul in Gehenna it was so that men would fear God. What I am teaching is FOUNDATION DOCTRINE. The doctrine of eternal judgment.

It is not private revelation. It is something the whole Church of Jesus is supposed to be in agreement on.

It is certainly true that death is separation from God. Yet death is also separation from self awareness.

How do we know?

Psalms 146:2-4

Quote:
2While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.

3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
At death our thoughts PERISH. We are no longer aware of God or ourselves. We have no more BEING says the scripture.

If one wants everlasting life he must believe in Jesus. Otherwise at death his thoughts perish and he is NO MORE.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 07-13-2019 at 03:22 AM.
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  #26  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:38 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The significance is that it is the truth. What is significance of insisting water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is part of the new birth, that it the meaning of "born of water"? After all, many oneness pentecostals believe one is born again at repentance, and reject the idea that baptism is "born of water", yet they baptise converts in the same name we do, so in both cases people get baptised in the saving name. So what is the significance? That it is the truth, that is the significance.

Moreover, conditional immortality (only the saved will live forever, not the wicked and unbelievers) stands opposed to the doctrine of the serpent, that "You shall not surely die." To believe all humans are naturally already immortal is pure pagan religion, straight from the serpent's mouth in the Garden.

This truth affirms the glory of God, that God alone has immortality, and that He gives Eternal Life to all in Christ - and ONLY to them, for he that does not believe shall not see Life.

It also assures the believer that sin, evil, and enmity against God will be purged from His Creation eventually.
Amen
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  #27  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:39 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by votivesoul View Post
All doctrine speaks to either truth or error. As such, true doctrine honors and promotes God; false doctrine dishonors and demotes God.

So, regardless of the practical implications for the sinner who is destroyed in Gehenna, the main question is whether or not God is correctly understood, and whether He is exalted or impugned.
Amen
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2019, 11:39 AM
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post
[B]
I received divine revelation from God about what Death means, and it means eternal separation from God. That's what I believe and I can't make anybody else believe what I received from God.
You received revelation that is not revealed in the Word?
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2019, 09:15 PM
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TyronePalmer TyronePalmer is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Jesus taught the fear of God. When he gave this teaching that God can kill/destroy the soul in Gehenna it was so that men would fear God. What I am teaching is FOUNDATION DOCTRINE. The doctrine of eternal judgment.

It is not private revelation. It is something the whole Church of Jesus is supposed to be in agreement on.

It is certainly true that death is separation from God. Yet death is also separation from self awareness.

How do we know?

Psalms 146:2-4



At death our thoughts PERISH. We are no longer aware of God or ourselves. We have no more BEING says the scripture.

If one wants everlasting life he must believe in Jesus. Otherwise at death his thoughts perish and he is NO MORE.
And how do we know that your teaching on eternal judgment is the truth?

The scriptures can be misinterpreted and misunderstood, as we well know.

The way God confirmed His ministers was with signs and wonders following.

John 3:1-2

"There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

Acts 2:22

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—"

Mark 16:19-20

"So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen."

So when God confirms your teaching on eternal judgment or anything else you teach, through the accompanying signs, then I will most certainly believe your teachings.
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Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
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  #30  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:58 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Does Everyone Live Forever?

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Originally Posted by TyronePalmer View Post

So when God confirms your teaching on eternal judgment or anything else you teach, through the accompanying signs, then I will most certainly believe your teachings.
Matthew 12:

[38] Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
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