Water Baptism Classes

TrueBeliever · #1 09-13-2014, 10:34 AM

I know of a few Apostolic Churches who have moved to conducting classes for those who are candidates for baptism. Has anyone encountered this or know a good reason as to why? It seems wise to me to do in order to make sure the candidate understands. Anyone know of any churches who uses this method before baptizing.

obriencp · #2 09-13-2014, 10:52 AM

I agree that it's a good idea. But, I know how some think and because of it's 'necessity,' often times the church puts them down in Jesus' name before they really understand what they're doing. Just my opinion.

TrueBeliever · #3 09-13-2014, 11:16 AM

True

FlamingZword · #4 09-13-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBeliever

I know of a few Apostolic Churches who have moved to conducting classes for those who are candidates for baptism. Has anyone encountered this or know a good reason as to why? It seems wise to me to do in order to make sure the candidate understands. Anyone know of any churches who uses this method before baptizing.

I totally disagree based on Biblical example.

Whenever there was a conversion in the Bible Baptism was usually done in the same day.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized by Phillip, right in the middle of the desert, after a talk with Philip.

The Philippian Jailer and his family was baptized in the middle of the night, Paul did not even wait till daytime to baptize them.

If we are going to be Apostolic, then we have to follow their example.
The idea of delaying baptism is a Catholic concept, for they delayed baptizing new converts until a certain day of the year and created very elaborate ceremonies for baptism.

Lafon · #5 09-14-2014, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I totally disagree based on Biblical example.

Whenever there was a conversion in the Bible Baptism was usually done in the same day.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized by Phillip, right in the middle of the desert, after a talk with Philip.

The Philippian Jailer and his family was baptized in the middle of the night, Paul did not even wait till daytime to baptize them.

If we are going to be Apostolic, then we have to follow their example.
The idea of delaying baptism is a Catholic concept, for they delayed baptizing new converts until a certain day of the year and created very elaborate ceremonies for baptism.

While I don't advocate classes for candidates prior to water baptism, nevertheless I think the example of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch provides us with an excellent scriptural mandate/requirement of insuring that the candidate have an understanding of the "true" identity of Jesus Christ, that is, the Oneness of God, and this PRIOR TO BEING BAPTIZED. Please note carefully the words of the discourse which transpired between Phillip and the eunuch:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized"? And Phillip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Note what Phillip stated that the eunuch "believest with all (his) heart," i.e., his mind before he would baptize him. Was it not that the eunuch understand the "true" identity of Christ, that is, that He is the "Son of God"?

As for me, and I know there are others who will disagree, I believe that this is something every candidate for water baptism MUST understand PRIOR to being immersed in the waters of baptism "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Indeed, I believe it to be an essential thing, else the candidate is left ignorant of the "true" meaning of our Lord's words written in Matthew 28:19, to wit, "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"?

I wonder just how many have been baptized, and are continuing to be so, without first understanding this. I think many, and that is an absolute shame!

Pliny · #6 11-09-2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I totally disagree based on Biblical example.

Whenever there was a conversion in the Bible Baptism was usually done in the same day.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized by Phillip, right in the middle of the desert, after a talk with Philip.

The Philippian Jailer and his family was baptized in the middle of the night, Paul did not even wait till daytime to baptize them.

If we are going to be Apostolic, then we have to follow their example.
The idea of delaying baptism is a Catholic concept, for they delayed baptizing new converts until a certain day of the year and created very elaborate ceremonies for baptism.

I will disagree with you to a point. The two examples reveal a little different story.
Philip met up with the Ethiopian who was apparently a God fearer of some kind. He already had some kind of faith in God. When Philip told him about Jesus they came to some water and the Ethiopian said here is water. That implies that Philip taught him about baptism while teaching him about Jesus. Also, Philip made faith in Christ a prerequisite for baptism. So I come away with two conclusions on this narrative:
1) You cannot separate baptism from preaching about Jesus.
2) Baptism must be accompanied by faith.

Concerning the Philippian jailor, they, Paul and Silas, spoke to him and his household the "word" (logos) of the Lord. I cannot in this short post provide a study on the "logos" of God, but you are smart enough anyway. Once again we see that baptism cannot be separated from preaching Jesus as the jailor and his household were immediately baptized.

The points here are:
The baptizer must ensure the baptizee understands the basics, baptism is for the remission of sins and they place faith in Christ with all their heart. This IMO implies repentance. How one does this mat vary. I examine the individual before baptizing them. That does not mean a catechism but it does mean that I will ensure the individual understands the purpose of baptism. They may be immediately or it may require a short postponement.

I think we are on the same page but wanted to clarify because there are some who have abused the baptistry. They go out and will baptize anybody and then talk about how many baptisms they have performed. There is no real repentance and no real faith on Christ and no real conversions. Just sinners getting wet while they shout about "revival" where there is none.

MarkBelosa · #7 11-14-2014, 07:35 PM

I believe that a person who shows interest in getting baptized should be taught and baptized right away and not wait for the next scheduled baptismal class. I believe that the average person can get a basic understanding of the scriptures from a 30 minute "conversation" that will "qualify" him for baptism. We just need to ensure that:

1. The person believes and confesses that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
2. The person has repented of their sins and has made a decision to follow Christ.
3. The person understands the purpose of water baptism and the formula that we are using (to differentiate from other churches that use a different one). And maybe tie it with the concept of the Oneness of God.

Almost all (if not all) of actual baptisms that took place in the book of Acts were preceded by some type of teaching or preaching.

Following up on the new convert is a different conversation but we cannot overemphasize the importance of teaching before AND after baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Praxeas · #8 09-13-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBeliever

I know of a few Apostolic Churches who have moved to conducting classes for those who are candidates for baptism. Has anyone encountered this or know a good reason as to why? It seems wise to me to do in order to make sure the candidate understands. Anyone know of any churches who uses this method before baptizing.

I don't believe you have to hold classes to get them a basic understanding

Also why do they really need to understand before being obedient?

obriencp · #9 09-13-2014, 08:31 PM

I know we're against taking the Lord's name in vain... I feel that if one doesn't understand baptism, does get baptized in Jesus' name, but chooses not to live for him, is one version of taking His name in vain.

I don't believe we should be teaching blind obedience.

FlamingZword · #10 09-13-2014, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obriencp

I know we're against taking the Lord's name in vain... I feel that if one doesn't understand baptism, does get baptized in Jesus' name, but chooses not to live for him, is one version of taking His name in vain.

I don't believe we should be teaching blind obedience.

The Apostles baptized right away, they would not take their Lord's name in vain.

Yes there is the possibility that someone that has been baptized will choose not to live for him, but that still happens even with people have been in the Church for years, even ministers have left the faith.

Being baptized will not prevent someone from walking out on the Lord.