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Old 02-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Kutless Kutless is offline
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Azusa Street

Just finished Bartlemans book. It was decent and I would recommend it. There were a couple statements that stood out to me and wondered if anyone here would care to comment on them.


1. (pg 71) "There can be no divisions in a true Pentecost. To formulate a separate body is but to advertise our failure as a people of God. It proves to the world that we cannot get along together, rather than causing them to believe in our salvation."


2. (pg 119) (author quotes Luther) "How difficult a thing it is to throw off errors which have been confirmed by the example of all the world, and which through long habit, have become second nature to us."


3.(pg 137) "We must work for the Kingdom of God as a whole, not for some pet individual party, organization, or movement. That has been the curse and cause of hindrance to our going on with God to full restoration in all generations. We have worshipped certain doctrines,party standards, partial experiences, and blessings, all fine as far as they go, but abnormal in themselves and only a part of the whole."


LAST ONE......

4. (pg 139) " Instead of delight in the pure Word, prayer and worship, a love for souls, and a zeal for good works, there come entertainment, programs, musicals, sensationalism, and oratory. These things have no place in essential true Christianity, but are professionalism....flesh."
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:14 AM
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Re: Azusa Street

Number one is so naive it sounds like something a Junior High school student would write or some drug inspired hippy from the '70's.
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:32 AM
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Re: Azusa Street

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Number one is so naive it sounds like something a Junior High school student would write or some drug inspired hippy from the '70's.
well it was the early 1900's and I'm not sure if they were smokin reefer then or not. Its all about the love man
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:40 AM
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Re: Azusa Street

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well it was the early 1900's and I'm not sure if they were smokin reefer then or not. Its all about the love man
LOL!!!

The funny thing is that the New Testament account of the early church is full of conflict. As long as human beings are involved with our imperfect bodies and minds there will be conflict.

It would actually be quite boring without it I think.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:07 AM
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Re: Azusa Street

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LOL!!!

The funny thing is that the New Testament account of the early church is full of conflict. As long as human beings are involved with our imperfect bodies and minds there will be conflict.

It would actually be quite boring without it I think.
agreed on that...

what about the first statement in regards to Tulsa
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:39 PM
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Re: Azusa Street

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Originally Posted by Kutless View Post


1. (pg 71) "There can be no divisions in a true Pentecost. To formulate a separate body is but to advertise our failure as a people of God. It proves to the world that we cannot get along together, rather than causing them to believe in our salvation."
As juvenile as this statement may sound to some, it is the very thing Jesus prayed for in the Garden. It is the very thing that was present before, during, and after Pentecost. It is the very thing that Paul spoke of in 1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

True, he wrote this at a time when the church at Corinth was divided, but, because of divisions among God's People we should be echoing Frank Bratlemans words louder that ever. Isn't it our jobs as Christians to preserve the Unity of the Spirit? Isn't it Gods desire for brethren to dwell together in Unity? Jesus said in Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. What Bartleman wrote mirrors the very prayer that Jesus prayed in the Garden. That, through our unity the world would believe the Gospel.

Isn't it true Jesus will have a church without spot, wrinkle and blemish? Then I have to ask, does the present day church fit that description with all of our divisions and, as Paul clearly said, our carnal strife?

In the Garden of Eden, everything was perfect. That is until Satan entered the picture. But, Revelations paints a picture of a restored paradise. Pentecost was a day of unity. There were in One Accord. If we intend on being God's Church, that harmony, that cohesiveness, that unity must be restored.

And it will be. Not through human endeavor because our efforts always fail. But the restoration of God's true church will be through and by the Holy Ghost.

No those aren't the words of a Jr High Schooler or a hippy. Those are words that only echo the prayer of the Lord Jesus in the garden on the night of His betrayal.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:58 PM
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Re: Azusa Street

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Number one is so naive it sounds like something a Junior High school student would write or some drug inspired hippy from the '70's.
I really don't think it would hurt the Pentecostal movement at all if it would have a little more innocence and much less modern knowledge and insight...

...just one man's opinion, but then, I'm brilliant...
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:26 PM
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Re: Azusa Street

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Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
As juvenile as this statement may sound to some, it is the very thing Jesus prayed for in the Garden. It is the very thing that was present before, during, and after Pentecost. It is the very thing that Paul spoke of in 1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

True, he wrote this at a time when the church at Corinth was divided, but, because of divisions among God's People we should be echoing Frank Bratlemans words louder that ever. Isn't it our jobs as Christians to preserve the Unity of the Spirit? Isn't it Gods desire for brethren to dwell together in Unity? Jesus said in Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. What Bartleman wrote mirrors the very prayer that Jesus prayed in the Garden. That, through our unity the world would believe the Gospel.

Isn't it true Jesus will have a church without spot, wrinkle and blemish? Then I have to ask, does the present day church fit that description with all of our divisions and, as Paul clearly said, our carnal strife?

In the Garden of Eden, everything was perfect. That is until Satan entered the picture. But, Revelations paints a picture of a restored paradise. Pentecost was a day of unity. There were in One Accord. If we intend on being God's Church, that harmony, that cohesiveness, that unity must be restored.

And it will be. Not through human endeavor because our efforts always fail. But the restoration of God's true church will be through and by the Holy Ghost.

No those aren't the words of a Jr High Schooler or a hippy. Those are words that only echo the prayer of the Lord Jesus in the garden on the night of His betrayal.
Nice one O.A.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:25 PM
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Re: Azusa Street

Well, I don't think there should have been division over the "formula" used in water baptism about 90 years ago.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:27 PM
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Re: Azusa Street

There can be unity without uniformity (everyone exactly alike) and without union (everyone in the same organization).
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