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  #1  
Old 03-27-2019, 01:54 AM
RonMurray's Avatar
RonMurray RonMurray is offline
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Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Praise the Lord, And hello fellow Apostolics.

In the issue of dealing with Trinitarians and their use of Matthew 28:19, many Apostolics got to where they treat Matthew 28:19 like it belongs to Trinitarians and Acts 2:38 to Apostolics. Matthew 28:19 is still the word of God and should be treated like it. Many Apostolics don't realize that we are the ones who baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not Trinitarians. Because they only baptize in the titles. But we baptize in the name, Jesus Christ.

So claim Matthew 28:19 with confidence. And proclaim that we are the one's who baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

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Old 03-27-2019, 12:10 PM
Bucky Bucky is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Amen. Agree with you completely.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2019, 03:56 PM
layman316 layman316 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMurray View Post
Praise the Lord, And hello fellow Apostolics.

In the issue of dealing with Trinitarians and their use of Matthew 28:19, many Apostolics got to where they treat Matthew 28:19 like it belongs to Trinitarians and Acts 2:38 to Apostolics. Matthew 28:19 is still the word of God and should be treated like it. Many Apostolics don't realize that we are the ones who baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not Trinitarians. Because they only baptize in the titles. But we baptize in the name, Jesus Christ.

So claim Matthew 28:19 with confidence. And proclaim that we are the one's who baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


Can you please show us in Church history where any disciple made the claim that Matthew 28:19 meant that the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit was the name Jesus?
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:25 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

JESUS NAME Water Baptism ;
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA
11TH edition, Vol 3, Pg 365-366
The baptismal formula was changed from the name of JESUS CHRIST to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century.
________________________________________
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 3, Pg 82
Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.
________________________________________
CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION
Pg 53
The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity doctrine in the 2nd century.
________________________________________
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 2, Pg 263
Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church.
________________________________________
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA
OF RELIGION
Vol 2, Pg 377
Christian baptism was administered using the words “In the name of Jesus”.
Vol 2, Pg 378
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church history.
Vol 2, Pg 389
Baptism was always in the name of Lord Jesus until the time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula was used.
________________________________________
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 8
Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church.
________________________________________
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION
Vol 2, Pg 377 on ACTS 2:38
NAME was an ancient synonym for “person”. Payment was always made in the name of some person referring ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his personal property. “Ye are Christ’s.”
________________________________________
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 22, Pg 477
The term “Trinity” was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS
(1951), II, 384, 389
The formula used was ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ’ or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion….in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were addedm at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)….
________________________________________
INTERPRETERS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE
(1962) I, 351
The evidence … suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, nut ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus’.
________________________________________
A HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN THOUGHT (Otto Heick)
(1965), I, 53
At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
________________________________________
HASTINGS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE
(1898), I, 241
[One explanation is that] the original form of words was ‘into the name of Jesus Christ’. Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development.
________________________________________
A HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH
Williston Walker, (1947), Pg 58
The Trinitarian baptismal formula … was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ.
________________________________________
THE NEW SCHAFF-HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE
(1957), I, 435
The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus …, which still occurs even in the second and third centuries.
________________________________________
CANNEY’S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS
(1970), Pg 53
Persons were baptized at first ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’ … or ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus.’… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA
(1899), I, 473
It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times ‘in the name of Jesus Christ,’ or in that ‘of the Lord Jesus.’ This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single – not triple, as was the later creed.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
11TH edition, (1910), Vol 2, Pg 365
The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the new Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so wide spread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid.
________________________________________
The evidence is overwhelming. This is obviously the way the apostles baptized in the first Church. Don't you think if you are going to be in Christ's Church, YOU should be baptized in the NAME of Jesus? "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matthew 10:22

https://www.facebook.com/Acts238com/...161973659325:0
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2019, 04:39 PM
Amanah's Avatar
Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

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  #6  
Old 01-04-2020, 02:06 PM
layman316 layman316 is offline
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Posts: 22
Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
JESUS NAME Water Baptism ;
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA
11TH edition, Vol 3, Pg 365-366
The baptismal formula was changed from the name of JESUS CHRIST to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century.
________________________________________
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 3, Pg 82
Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.
________________________________________
CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION
Pg 53
The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity doctrine in the 2nd century.
________________________________________
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 2, Pg 263
Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church.
________________________________________
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA
OF RELIGION
Vol 2, Pg 377
Christian baptism was administered using the words “In the name of Jesus”.
Vol 2, Pg 378
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church history.
Vol 2, Pg 389
Baptism was always in the name of Lord Jesus until the time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula was used.
________________________________________
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 8
Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church.
________________________________________
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION
Vol 2, Pg 377 on ACTS 2:38
NAME was an ancient synonym for “person”. Payment was always made in the name of some person referring ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his personal property. “Ye are Christ’s.”
________________________________________
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA
Vol 22, Pg 477
The term “Trinity” was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS
(1951), II, 384, 389
The formula used was ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ’ or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion….in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were addedm at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)….
________________________________________
INTERPRETERS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE
(1962) I, 351
The evidence … suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, nut ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus’.
________________________________________
A HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN THOUGHT (Otto Heick)
(1965), I, 53
At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
________________________________________
HASTINGS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE
(1898), I, 241
[One explanation is that] the original form of words was ‘into the name of Jesus Christ’. Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development.
________________________________________
A HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH
Williston Walker, (1947), Pg 58
The Trinitarian baptismal formula … was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ.
________________________________________
THE NEW SCHAFF-HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE
(1957), I, 435
The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus …, which still occurs even in the second and third centuries.
________________________________________
CANNEY’S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS
(1970), Pg 53
Persons were baptized at first ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’ … or ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus.’… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA
(1899), I, 473
It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times ‘in the name of Jesus Christ,’ or in that ‘of the Lord Jesus.’ This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single – not triple, as was the later creed.
________________________________________
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
11TH edition, (1910), Vol 2, Pg 365
The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the new Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so wide spread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid.
________________________________________
The evidence is overwhelming. This is obviously the way the apostles baptized in the first Church. Don't you think if you are going to be in Christ's Church, YOU should be baptized in the NAME of Jesus? "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matthew 10:22

https://www.facebook.com/Acts238com/...161973659325:0
Please show in Scripture were the exact words were spoken over a person during baptism.

The earliest known formula was recorded in the Didache 60-80 AD and second additions in 100-150 AD.

The Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, an anonymous book of 16 short chapters, is probably the earliest known written instructions, outside of the Bible, for administering baptism. The first version of it was written c. 60–80 AD.[58] The second, with insertions and additions, was written c. 100–150 AD.[58] This work, rediscovered in the 19th century, provides a unique look at Christianity in the Apostolic Age and is the first explicit reference to baptism by pouring, although the New Testament does not exclude the possibility of this practice."[59] Its instructions on baptism are as follows:

Now about baptism: this is how to baptize. Give public instruction on all these points, and then baptize in running water, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... If you do not have running water, baptize in some other. If you cannot in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, then pour water on the head three times in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Before the baptism, moreover, the one who baptizes and the one being baptized must fast, and any others who can. And you must tell the one being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.[60][c] (emphases added).
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Last edited by layman316; 01-04-2020 at 03:18 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2020, 02:07 PM
layman316 layman316 is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
Please show in Scripture where the Father or the Holy Spirit were called by the name "Jesus."
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:13 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by layman316 View Post
Please show in Scripture were the exact words were spoken over a person during baptism.

The earliest known formula was recorded in the Didache 60-80 AD and second additions in 100-150 AD.

The Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, an anonymous book of 16 short chapters, is probably the earliest known written instructions, outside of the Bible, for administering baptism. The first version of it was written c. 60–80 AD.[58] The second, with insertions and additions, was written c. 100–150 AD.[58] This work, rediscovered in the 19th century, provides a unique look at Christianity in the Apostolic Age and is the first explicit reference to baptism by pouring, although the New Testament does not exclude the possibility of this practice."[59] Its instructions on baptism are as follows:

Now about baptism: this is how to baptize. Give public instruction on all these points, and then baptize in running water, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... If you do not have running water, baptize in some other. If you cannot in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, then pour water on the head three times in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Before the baptism, moreover, the one who baptizes and the one being baptized must fast, and any others who can. And you must tell the one being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.[60][c] (emphases added).
How can you present the Didache as a proof when those instructions are not found in the Bible (fasting, the temperature of the water, and pouring instead of immersion) It makes the me suspicious as to the veracity of the whole.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:40 PM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by layman316 View Post
The earliest known formula was recorded in the Didache 60-80 AD and second additions in 100-150 AD. ...the first explicit reference to baptism by pouring ...pour water on the head three times in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Before the baptism, moreover, the one who baptizes and the one being baptized must fast, and any others who can. And you must tell the one being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.
And I am surprised that layman316 actually claims the ultra-dubious 1st century claim as his own belief.

He is quite welcome to explain why he considers such a non-scriptural passage to be 1st century.

====================

ADDED

And I wrote this a year ago on a discussion on Facebook group (Patristics for Protestants).
Quote:

Steven Avery
The allowance for pouring water on the head three times would seem to indicate some time and doctrinal distance from the apostolic era, with the scriptures showing the search for water for the immersion baptism of the scriptures.

Acts 8:36-38 (AV)
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
and the eunuch said, See, here is water;
what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water,
both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


This type of doctrinal shifting, allowing a pouring on the head, would likely take a century or more. ie. 150 AD rather than 1st century.

Last edited by Steven Avery; 01-06-2020 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:02 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Trinitarians Don't Own Matthew 28:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
And I am surprised that layman316 actually claims the ultra-dubious 1st century claim as his own belief.

He is quite welcome to explain why he considers such a non-scriptural passage to be 1st century.
Perhaps he is a Roman catholic? Methodist? Or Church of the Nazarene?
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