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  #31  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:37 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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If the law as a tutor means the 4th commandment need not be obeyed once one becomes a Christian, then not only may the Christian dispense with Sabbath keeping, but they may dispense with every other commandment of God as well, for exactly the same reason.
Strawman because as I explained many times sabbath is fulfilled not replaced or abrogated. The shadow days are gone.
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  #32  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:47 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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Strawman because as I explained many times sabbath is fulfilled not replaced or abrogated. The shadow days are gone.
Actually it isn't a strawman. You argue law was a tutor therefore we aren't under the tutor therefore we don't keep the Sabbath day holy. The same reasoning applies to everything comprehended under the term "law".
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Last edited by Esaias; 12-23-2019 at 11:19 PM. Reason: typo
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:52 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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We talked abut this before. God does not require me to go to church sabbath or Sunday. That's the bottom line.

Arguing about what you assume my belief leads to, or it's alleged logical conclusion that I don't engage in, is not actually dealing with what I believe.
I am dealing with what you SAY. The logical conclusions to your arguments are what they are.
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  #34  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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Actually it isn't a strawman. You argue law was a tutor therefore we aren't under the tutor therefore we don't keep the Sabbath day holy. The sane reasoning applies to everything comprehended under the term "law".
The tutor role was the mundane shadow preparing for the spiritual rest Christ would bring. Fulfilled, again. The concept or principle led to the actuality in the spirit. It made the reality in the spirit easy to understand.
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:20 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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I am dealing with what you SAY. The logical conclusions to your arguments are what they are.
No and it is not dealing with what I believe and what i say I believe. The logical conclusion is where I stand now, not something I do not stand in.
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  #36  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:22 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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The tutor role was the mundane shadow preparing for the spiritual rest Christ would bring. Fulfilled, again. The concept or principle led to the actuality in the spirit. It made the reality in the spirit easy to understand.
Sounds great! I mean seriously I agree with this. BUT if one concludes from this "therefore we don't have to do what the fourth commandment says to do" then it necessarily applies to every jot, tittle, both tablets of the Big Ten and everything in between - in the same exact way.
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  #37  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:23 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

If we follow Paul's narrative in the sequence he gave it to the church there, reading through chapter 3 and on into chapter 4 in the order he wrote it, we do not come across any reference to idols until 4:8.

Galatians 4:8.. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

You claim that is what elements oo the world and tutors and governors refer to in verses 2-3, or at least elements of the world (if perhaps you recognize tutors and governors of verse 3 as LAW). That is by no means the antecedent to verses written before it. Note what is written before verse 8.

Galatians 4:1-7.. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; ..(2).. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. ..(3).. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: ..(4).. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, ..(5).. To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. ..(6).. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. ..(7).. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

To follow Paul's context, you cannot take verse 8 and claim that is the antecedent of what verses 2 and 3 refer to as tutors and governors, or the elements of the world. How on earth can tutors and governors refer to the same thing that "service unto them which by nature are no gods" refers to?..

Tutors and governors are the schoolmaster that Paul mentioned in chapter 3! And that is LAW! How can you not see that? LAW is the antecedent for the reference to elements of the world, and tutors and governors.

To take something written AFTER verses 3 and 4, such as verse 8's reference to "service unto them which by nature are no gods," and claim that is "the elements of the world" is to violate all grammar and comprehensive reading. ANTE in ANTECEDENT means BEFORE. You do not write about something, such as "elements of the world" and "governors and tutors" and mean idolatry and paganism that is not written until afterwards, if those phrases actually refer to idolatry. You look at what is written before verses 3 and 4 of chapter 4 to find the antecedent, and lo and behold that is LAW in Chapter 3. In fact, it repeats LAW in 4:5.

To say that his readers knew what he meant about idolatry, as though idolatry was what those phrases in verse 3 and 4 actually meant, without Paul having to actually write the reference to idolatry before verses 3 and 4 is grand assumption and inserting into the text things which you cannot prove whatsoever.

The reason he mentioned "service unto them which by nature are no gods" is because these pagans weer involved in the Old Covenant as converts to it before they came to Christ, and Pau noted that they were returning to bondage of law, which is what the warder references of chapter 3 already stated quite clearly.

He, therefore, mentioned "service unto them which by nature are no gods" as a side thought that they were orginally pagans before they came into Judaism, after which they were saved by Christ, and not the basic reference he's using to compare to tutors and governors who oversee an heir.
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  #38  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:24 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Sounds great! I mean seriously I agree with this. BUT if one concludes from this "therefore we don't have to do what the fourth commandment says to do" then it necessarily applies to every jot, tittle, both tablets of the Big Ten and everything in between - in the same exact way.
Not really. It's not not doing the day but doing what the day foreshadowed.

The temple was a shadow so we don't have a temple. Sacrifices were Shadows of Christ too. We dont offer animals still, though.
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:32 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

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No and it is not dealing with what I believe and what i say I believe. The logical conclusion is where I stand now, not something I do not stand in.
Are trinitarians genuine monotheists?

My point is that some of your arguments necessarily lead to conclusions. Whether you adhere to your argumentation all the way to their logical end or not doesn't change what those arguments actually consist in.

Example: "We have church every Sunday because of spiritual reasons..." Conclusion? You keep Sunday as a holy day (a day separate and distinct from other days). You disagree with that conclusion, and I understand why. But the conclusion is there nonetheless. Holy means separate and dedicated to divine purposes. There you have it. Sundaykeeping isn't "whatever was required under the 4th commandment is now applied to Sunday" necessarily. It is at its most basic the regular observance of Sunday as a day devoted to religious practices, you do Sundays differently than you do the other days of the week.

Example: We're not under the law, it has been fulfilled, therefore we don't need to do the specific thing the law said to actually do. So pick any command, and this reasoning applies.
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  #40  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:35 PM
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Re: Why Sunday

Gotta go to bed. That alarm rings awful early in the morning... lol
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