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  #431  
Old 04-26-2007, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JTULLOCK View Post
You are right it begins with repentance and then to the baptism and then the HG. No certain orde, but repentace is always before the HG moving.
That is what Acts 2:38 says.I was speaking more of the instruction after you recieve.

Unlike some of the folks in the post above, i believe the Holy Ghost is the start not the end.
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  #432  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:36 AM
Iron_Bladder
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The Baptismal Formula; is it “Jesus Christ?”


1. That the exact wordings, and even the Greek prepositions differ widely between the so called baptismal proof texts found at Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19 is obviously devastating to your position. In Acts 2 we read “in (epi) the name Jesus Christ,” at Acts 8 and 19 “in (eis) the name Lord Jesus,” and lastly at Acts 10 where we read “in (ev) the name Lord.” If a baptismal formula were really being given here, then it would not differ so widely between its various usages in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19.

2. The only explanation, is that the word “name” (onoma) means “authority,” as in “stop in the name of the law,” and that this is how Luke is using the term “onoma.” Notice that “name” (onoma) is used this way by Luke in Acts 4:7, where it is juxtaposed with the word “power.”

3. The reference to the Holy Spirit in Acts 19:2-3, further confirms Matthew 28:19 as baptism being upon the authority of the one God who is not simply Jesus, but is Father and Son and Holy Spirit. Paul meets certain disciples of John, and asks if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed. When they reply that they don't know who the Holy Spirit is (Acts 19:2), Paul then immediately asks how then were you baptised (verse 3). He did this because he knew that the words Holy Spirit, referred to Matthew 28:19. So if “Jesus Christ” is the proper baptismal formula, then Paul's question “into what then were you baptised?” Does not make any sense. Because it would be a complete change of subject from his question, onto these Jewish disciples in the previous verse.

4. To baptise upon the name of the “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19), is to baptise according to Acts 2:38, because both these passages imply the authority for baptism.

5. You cannot understand the baptismal formula, apart from a study of the Aaronic blessing formula in Numbers 6. This specific blessing was used by the priests constantly in the Old Testament Scripture, but when it is it is simply referred to in a shortened summary form. This is why we read of Levi blessing the people “in his name” (Deuteronomy 10:8), and the priests being commanded “to bless in the name of the LORD,” (Deuteronomy 21:50) or “to give a blessing in his name forever.” (1st Chronicles 23:13). God does not need to slavishly repeat the Aaronic blessing word for word, every time that it was used, and so this shortened form “in his name” or “in the name of the Lord” refers back to the Numbers 6 formula. So you can see that your baptismal passages in Acts, mirror the way that the Aaronic blessing formula was used.

6. My main problem with your position is not that I disagree with it, but that the implications are that Trinitarians like myself are not saved (and so too are Luther, Wesley and Jonathan Edwards in hell). But in my opinion our love towards God, so our hearts count more than religious works, and so I’m certain that God will recognise sprinkling, immersion or pouring, and even if no formula or an incorrect formula of words is used. However you can’t say this of Trinitarians, and so you must claim that we’re lost and going to hell, which is why you have to go on and on about baptism all the time, and getting the mode and formula just right. So it isn’t your constant insistence upon mode of baptism which I find so objectionable, it is rather the ‘hard hearted dogmatism’ which claims that God will ........ a man to hell on a mere technicality. Love is not enough, and neither is the cross or even the reception of the Holy Spirit. But our works must be exactly right in order to get us into heaven, because our relationship with God starts and is even based upon our own deeds; namely correct baptism and speaking in tongues. So the God of Oneness only loves us through our works for him, yet my Bible says that God loves and justifies the ungodly, and not the Godly: see Romans 4:5.
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  #433  
Old 07-24-2007, 10:25 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Jesus is still my God!!!
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  #434  
Old 07-24-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CareyM View Post
I've heard one of our preachers say much of the same thing....He said the Baptists are better Christians than some of us, because we focus too much on ACTS 2:38 and don't preach/teach enough on Christian living.
I agree with this. It doesn't take away from the importance of Act 2:38, but there is so much more to it.
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  #435  
Old 07-24-2007, 01:16 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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I read the first page -and the last, while skipping through all the ones in between.

I think it is a very legitimate question and was sort of surprised to see the venom against it even being asked. I have heard similar sermons myself in fact. Where people could get the (understandable) idea that some people wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if the whole bible was thrown out except for Acts 2:38 and a very specific verse two relating to how they live their life (Deut 22:5 comes to mind). All the lessons of the gospels seem to be lost in the process......

"It is like a finger pointing at the sky. Don't look at the finger! Or you'll miss all the heavenly glory....." -Bruce Lee
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  #436  
Old 08-01-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Iron_Bladder The Baptismal Formula; is it “Jesus Christ?”


1. That the exact wordings, and even the Greek prepositions differ widely between the so called baptismal proof texts found at Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19 is obviously devastating to your position. In Acts 2 we read “in (epi) the name Jesus Christ,” at Acts 8 and 19 “in (eis) the name Lord Jesus,” and lastly at Acts 10 where we read “in (ev) the name Lord.” If a baptismal formula were really being given here, then it would not differ so widely between its various usages in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19.

2. The only explanation, is that the word “name” (onoma) means “authority,” as in “stop in the name of the law,” and that this is how Luke is using the term “onoma.” Notice that “name” (onoma) is used this way by Luke in Acts 4:7, where it is juxtaposed with the word “power.”

3. The reference to the Holy Spirit in Acts 19:2-3, further confirms Matthew 28:19 as baptism being upon the authority of the one God who is not simply Jesus, but is Father and Son and Holy Spirit. Paul meets certain disciples of John, and asks if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed. When they reply that they don't know who the Holy Spirit is (Acts 19:2), Paul then immediately asks how then were you baptised (verse 3). He did this because he knew that the words Holy Spirit, referred to Matthew 28:19. So if “Jesus Christ” is the proper baptismal formula, then Paul's question “into what then were you baptised?” Does not make any sense. Because it would be a complete change of subject from his question, onto these Jewish disciples in the previous verse.

4. To baptise upon the name of the “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19), is to baptise according to Acts 2:38, because both these passages imply the authority for baptism.

5. You cannot understand the baptismal formula, apart from a study of the Aaronic blessing formula in Numbers 6. This specific blessing was used by the priests constantly in the Old Testament Scripture, but when it is it is simply referred to in a shortened summary form. This is why we read of Levi blessing the people “in his name” (Deuteronomy 10:8), and the priests being commanded “to bless in the name of the LORD,” (Deuteronomy 21:50) or “to give a blessing in his name forever.” (1st Chronicles 23:13). God does not need to slavishly repeat the Aaronic blessing word for word, every time that it was used, and so this shortened form “in his name” or “in the name of the Lord” refers back to the Numbers 6 formula. So you can see that your baptismal passages in Acts, mirror the way that the Aaronic blessing formula was used.

6. My main problem with your position is not that I disagree with it, but that the implications are that Trinitarians like myself are not saved (and so too are Luther, Wesley and Jonathan Edwards in hell). But in my opinion our love towards God, so our hearts count more than religious works, and so I’m certain that God will recognise sprinkling, immersion or pouring, and even if no formula or an incorrect formula of words is used. However you can’t say this of Trinitarians, and so you must claim that we’re lost and going to hell, which is why you have to go on and on about baptism all the time, and getting the mode and formula just right. So it isn’t your constant insistence upon mode of baptism which I find so objectionable, it is rather the ‘hard hearted dogmatism’ which claims that God will ........ a man to hell on a mere technicality. Love is not enough, and neither is the cross or even the reception of the Holy Spirit. But our works must be exactly right in order to get us into heaven, because our relationship with God starts and is even based upon our own deeds; namely correct baptism and speaking in tongues. So the God of Oneness only loves us through our works for him, yet my Bible says that God loves and justifies the ungodly, and not the Godly: see Romans 4:5.
Do not despair friend, God is leading all of us until we are conformed to his glorious image. We are being changed from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord Jesus. There are many crossroads in a pilgrim's walk until we are glorified. The truth can be held in unrighteousness while the love of the truth leads to knowledges of good and faith. Faith alone will not save anyone being alone without works, for it is by our good works that we glorify our Father which is in heaven and faith is made perfect. This is one of the reasons that Jesus specifically stated in the Revelation of Jesus Christ to each of the churches, "I know your works". If these works do not come unto perfection, then Jesus warns of the light being removed and demands repentance in order to align ourselves with the will of God in order to walk in the light as He is in the light. BTW power is received by receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:8) upon the obedience of being baptized in the name Je (Jehovah) Sus (Salvation) that the body of sin might be destroyed (Romans 6:1-6). By this obedience to the Word, many here have seen greater light going from one glory to another by the Spirit of the Lord which started at this particular verse of scripture by obedience, for the Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him...

What happened when one was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? The heart was circumcised. (Romans 2:28,29). How was the heart where the body of sin was present circumcised, that body of sin being cut off? "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting of the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:Buried with him in baptism...(Colossians 2:11.12)... this is the reason that we love it...
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  #437  
Old 09-16-2010, 02:55 PM
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Re: Is Acts 2:38 your god?

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  #438  
Old 09-16-2010, 02:58 PM
Maximilian Maximilian is offline
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Re: Is Acts 2:38 your god?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDG View Post
In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....
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  #439  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:00 PM
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Re: Is Acts 2:38 your god?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDG View Post
In a captivating message at the 2007 BOTT, Jeff Arnold, a solid PAJCer, and a favorite preacher of mine, remarked that many within the movement have not moved beyond Acts 2:38 and Knowing the book.

He went as far to exhort the listeners that many in the movement don't really KNOW GOD.

One interesting quote from the message and I paraphrase is .....

"You are married to doctrine and have divorced youself from Deity."

What say ye of this message? I will post audio of the message later.

Have some made Acts 2:38 and standards THE MESSAGE ... while Jesus is sitting on the outside looking in????


Just asking a question ....
Sad but true..Acts 2:38 and standard keeping is what most ONLY know.
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