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Old 03-08-2014, 10:57 PM
easygo easygo is offline
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Honest Abe was not so honest??

The fact is, Honest Abe was not so honest, and President Lincoln was more Dictator Lincoln than anything. His campaign promises of freeing the slaves never happened, he was rumored to have cheated on his wife numerous times, he suspended Habeas Corpus, he deported a political rival, and he even considered deporting all freed slaves to Liberia.

Certainly sounds like a good guy, right? ...right?

Not so fast.

Lincoln campaigned in 1860 on the premise that all men were created equal, yet in August of 1858 he said "I have no
purpose to introduce political and social equality between
the white and black races..."

Lincoln campaigned for quality, yet in July of 1858 he said "What I would most desire would be
the separation of the white and black races."

Lincoln campaigned for the rights of slaves, yet in September of 1858 he said "I will to the very last stand by the law of this
state, which forbids the marrying of white people with
Negroes."


People say Lincoln was a defender of the Constitution.

This couldn't be more false.

Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. At his command, but with absolutely no legal authority, he suspended 300 newspapers from production, censored all telegraphic communications, rigged elections in the North. Lincolin in his own writings said, he didnt think he would win relection, even though the south could not vote, so that means at the time less than 25% of the people liked him. If the people then didnt like him, why is he a hero Now.

Also he oversaw the intimidation of Democratic voters (in New York City hundreds of protesters against conscription were shot,) he unconstitutionally carved West Virginia out of Virginia, and he deported the most outspoken member of the Democratic Party, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio. Duly-elected members of the Maryland legislature were goaled, so was the mayor and a Maryland Congressman. Lincoln disarmed citizens of the Border States, in complete disregard of the 2nd Amendment and he even seized private property.



Lincoln was a great humanitarian, you say?

Quite the contrary.

Lincoln waged war against the Southern civilians. He oversaw the destruction of entire towns and ordered his troops to murder women and children, massive looting, rape and execution without trial of non combatants. Sherman's March to the Sea, an order given by Lincoln, is one of, if not the worst acts of terrorism on United States soil.
The south was not able to vote for years after the war was over.



Was the Civil War necessary?

Absolutely not.

The entire war could have been avoided if Lincoln had not trapped the Confederate army into firing first at Ft. Sumter, thus allowing Lincoln to invade the South illegally. 620,000 soldiers died and as many as 250,000 civilians died in this unnecessary war.

Argentina, Colombia, Chile, Mexico, Bolivia, Uruguay, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela, and various French colonies all abolished slavery peacefully and by means of compensated emancipation. I guess Lincoln missed the memo.



Abraham Lincoln was a dictator, an imperialist, and a war criminal. He was never the Great Emancipator like so many believe, but he was arguably America's worst-ever president.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:07 PM
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A239 A239 is offline
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Quote:
Originally Posted by easygo View Post
Abraham Lincoln was a dictator, an imperialist, and a war criminal. He was never the Great Emancipator like so many believe, but he was arguably America's worst-ever president.
Right after jimmy carter and Obama.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:09 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

ok, wadr, there is another side to this story, and the zeitgeist of the moment then has not really been fully presented yet here. it's been too long ago that i read the 'other side' to this, but i do know that the country was in complete turmoil at the time, and judgements about Lincoln using our current mores, based upon your OP facts alone, without a fuller context, might be giving short-shrift to Lincoln.

Lincoln kicked out the bankers and issued greenbacks, relieving this country--for a short time--from the usury of dollars as debt instruments that so oppress us today, is why the civil war was started; by the Bankers, i can even dig up the direct threat uttered to Lincoln by some Rothschild to the effect, "something something something-something, Mr Lincoln will find himself in a most unfortunate civil war," basically unabashedly admitting that the European banking cabal require Lincoln to either kowtow or they would instigate the war. it's not even hidden, and was printed in a newspaper.

on the 'white and black races' thing, even Scripture tells us that people of different cultures should not be mixing or marrying, as cultures collide, and marriage is difficult enough already. while this might read as discrimination from Lincoln, it is possible to also view it as just common sense, and even adhering to Scripture, as whites and blacks back then were def culturally separate. (as a side note, i have many Muslim friends; warm, genuine people that truly live their beliefs, without being religious about it, etc--but i believe that allowing large numbers of Muslims to immigrate to a Christian or other nation is just suicidally stupid, and asking for trouble)

where are we at...habeas corpus; there was a good reason for this, and tho i forget what it is at the moment, it's googlable, and heck, you don't have habeas corpus right now, except on paper, sad to say. at least Abe was up-front about it--ours was stolen while we slept, so to speak.

at 'democratic party,' i think context will justify Abe again, as the parties then were being maniped by European powers, and hardly resembled our current Rep/Dem system. i also remember a decent reason for the W Virginia thing, and Vallandigham was just a Rothschild whore/mouthpiece, that is documented--and the People loved greenbacks; the economy boosted as soon as they were issued. Abe was literally fighting satan hisself there, i'm pretty sure.

"Lincoln disarmed citizens of the Border States" ok yes, but why? the answer will make sense; i think it was something about their constant flip-flopping.

On the waging war on Southern civilians, that was an attempt to deliberately horrify the south, and end the war early, i think is how that goes.

is ft sumpter the one on the island? i think your version there may be skewed as well, or at least let me say that i heard the other side, and it seems to me i remember pretty heinous confederate activity there as well.

i really don't have a dog in this hunt, and for all i know the story I got was slanted; how about we see? i'll have to remember where i got mine, and will come back tomorrow; can you provide a link to where you got your version? most likely the truth is somewhere in between, but i am pretty sure that we would not even have a US of A today had it not been for Lincoln. maybe I'm wrong, tho, and someone with a possibly more complete picture, and a better brain for history might chime in meanwhile.

the one thing i do know for a fact is that Lincoln was up against the beast of Europe, who were openly agitating to split the country up so that they could administer their usury to us all, just like they have done again, which is why China owns us now. every dollar you have in your pocket is steadily being stolen from you via usury, interest, a little at a time, and i think you may have only the Rothschild version of events of that time. manana then.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:13 AM
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Does the bible not say that God places certain people in leadership positions for a reason? It was just all according to his plan
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So stop trying justify your sin, grow up, and deal with it like an adult should.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:25 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

yup. telling that the Bible gives us Saul as our first official 'Leader,' and Scripture makes plain that Saul was rejected by God. (= "human leaders for believers are rejected by God") God does not want a believer to have any leader other than the Holy Spirit, i'm pretty sure...and i'm also pretty sure Abe was backed into about 5 diff corners in that time. heck, he was assassinated; he must have had merit (has always been my thinking there)
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:38 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Quote:
Originally Posted by easygo View Post
Abraham Lincoln was a dictator, an imperialist, and a war criminal. He was never the Great Emancipator like so many believe, but he was arguably America's worst-ever president.
The man is dead, he is not available to defend himself, and even if everything you say is true, we have to realize that Lincoln was a man of his times. judging people from one era by the standards of another is just silly.

This diatribe is just another attempt to rewrite history.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:43 PM
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Hindsight vision is always 20/20.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:16 PM
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Who is Abe?












LOL
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Old 03-09-2014, 03:37 PM
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Paul didn't dissolve slavery either. But he regulated it within the church. Why? To do so would have been a major problem since it was widely accepted both culturally and legally. It would have created problems for the church.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:23 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Honest Abe was not so honest??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Paul didn't dissolve slavery either. But he regulated it within the church. Why? To do so would have been a major problem since it was widely accepted both culturally and legally. It would have created problems for the church.
it also did not conform to the definition of slavery we have today; usually meant more like 'indentured servant' i think--but ya, things usually don't change before their time huh
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