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  #51  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:08 PM
Esaias's Avatar
Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

Ask Onan.
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  #52  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:26 PM
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Ask Onan.
A long time ago, I was 22. I asked a Pastor about this and the greater implications for a single young man. He actually did not advise against doing this deed if a person could somehow be mechanical about it, i.e. not lust.

I think today, if I had a son, I would just advise against it while making sure to emphasize the Grace that is there for the single man that takes matters into their own hands regarding this sin.
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  #53  
Old 05-17-2017, 03:27 PM
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
It's not about race. If you can't see the socio-economic connection, I don't think you're paying attention.
Will you please elaborate on this?
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  #54  
Old 05-17-2017, 04:01 PM
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
A long time ago, I was 22. I asked a Pastor about this and the greater implications for a single young man. He actually did not advise against doing this deed if a person could somehow be mechanical about it, i.e. not lust.

I think today, if I had a son, I would just advise against it while making sure to emphasize the Grace that is there for the single man that takes matters into their own hands regarding this sin.
Onan wasn't masturbating. He was practicing coitus interruptus, the near universal form of attempted birth control that predates Greek IUDs.
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  #55  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:58 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Will you please elaborate on this?
In a 2005 study, 73% of women undergoing an abortion said not being able to afford a baby now was a reason for the abortion. That number rose to 81% for women below the federal poverty line. And while the abortion rate for American women declined by 8% between 2000 and 2008, among poor American women it increased by 18%.

I look at social democracies like Belgium and Switzerland. They are liberal prochoice nations. Less than 10 per every 1,000 pregnancies. However, they have the lowest abortion rates in the world. The United State's abortion rate was at its lowest in 2014, nearly 14 per every 1,000 pregnancies. Then look at Mexico. Mexico has tougher abortion laws than the United States, yet their abortion rate is nearly twice the U.S. abortion rate.

The driving force behind abortion isn't the desire to kill. The driving force is the deadly combination of fear and poverty. Most are poor. Most are unmarried or are already single parents. Most don't have health insurance. The younger women are often students.

In a perfect world we should be able to simply tell people not to have sex until they are married and financially stable. But human nature being what it is, people have sex. That means, there will be unplanned pregnancies. That's just a fact of life on this messed up and fallen world.

Now, I'm not a supporter of abortion. I think every abortion is a tragedy. But I look at nations with "tough" abortion laws, and the abortion rates aren't very low at all. However, I look at liberal prochoice nations and find that their abortion rates are very low. Obviously, merely banning abortion isn't a resolution.

What all these countries with lower abortion rates have in common is that they have addressed the following issues:
Comprehensive Sex Education
Contraceptives and Birth Control Availability
Living Wage for Women
Universal Health Insurance
Daycares on Public College Campuses
Comprehensive Mental Health Initiatives
Wide Range of Social Services
Paid Maternity Leave
Domestic Violence
Subsidized Daycare Services
In essence, as a society they have turned their focus on addressing the issues women face when confronted with an unplanned pregnancy. As a result, more women feel secure enough to choose life. Their philosophy is clearly, "If you help the mother, you help the child."

It America, it isn't so. We often shame women who have sex outside of marriage. Sex education is lacking. The most effective means of birth control aren't always covered by health insurance. Women do not typically make a living wage. A significant number of poor and working poor women do not have health insurance. Students are often confronted with the fact that they will have to seek and pay for daycare services. Paid maternity leave is often a luxury. America is woefully lacking when it comes to a public policy on mental health. Outside of charitable groups, we have few resources women in abusive relationships can turn to. Social services are often lacking what is necessary to truly stabilize a single parent household.

A woman with an unplanned pregnancy can be confronted by many things. However, if she's poor... the list is almost endless. Just consider health insurance. Without health insurance coverage for pre-natal, delivery, and post-natal care (if needed) a woman, who is already poor, is looking at tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt. But for roughly $200, an abortion clinic can make all her problems go away.

We want to ban abortion. But merely banning abortion doesn't address the issues that will continue to drive women to want an abortion. If we really want to make an impact and reduce the abortion rate, we have to address the issues women are confronted with when they have an unplanned pregnancy. If we help women... we'll also help the unborn.
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  #56  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:00 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
A long time ago, I was 22. I asked a Pastor about this and the greater implications for a single young man. He actually did not advise against doing this deed if a person could somehow be mechanical about it, i.e. not lust.

I think today, if I had a son, I would just advise against it while making sure to emphasize the Grace that is there for the single man that takes matters into their own hands regarding this sin.
I asked my pastor about this too back in the day. He said it wasn't a sin, but that one shouldn't lust. I told him I didn't think it was possible to not lust and masturbate. He looked at me and said, "Son, a man knows the difference between fantasy and lust."

He's right. There is a difference.

Last edited by Aquila; 05-18-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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  #57  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:07 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Onan wasn't masturbating. He was practicing coitus interruptus, the near universal form of attempted birth control that predates Greek IUDs.
Exactly. Onan's "sin" wasn't the coitus interruptus either. It was the fact that he was required by God to sire children in the name of his dead brother, but he did this to prevent conception.
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  #58  
Old 05-18-2017, 09:41 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I asked my pastor about this too back in the day. He said it wasn't a sin, but that one shouldn't lust. I told him I didn't think it was possible to not lust and masturbate. He looked at me and said, "Son, a man knows the difference between fantasy and lust."

He's right. There is a difference.
No, he's not. And shame on him for lying to you.
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  #59  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:44 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by n david View Post
No, he's not. And shame on him for lying to you.
It was explained to me this way. You can play Cowboys and Indians while pretending to kill Indians all day long, and you haven't sinned. It's fantasy, it's imagination.

However, if you're polishing your rifle while truly longing to go out and actually shoot an Indian, that's a sin.

Jesus said,
Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
This describes a man gazing upon a woman with the actual desire and intention of using and exploiting her. The point that Jesus mentions "adultery" also indicates that the man is married. This isn't the imagination or fantasy of a single person who just can't shake "the mood" on a cold and lonely night.

Last edited by Aquila; 05-18-2017 at 11:12 AM.
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  #60  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:59 AM
n david n david is offline
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Re: Trumpcare: Pre-existing Conditions Not Covered

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
It was explained to me this way. You can play Cowboys and Indians while pretending to kill Indians all day long, and you haven't sinned. It's fantasy, it's imagination.

However, if you're polishing your rifle while truly longing to go out and actually shoot an Indian, that's a sin.
You can try to explain it how you will, it doesn't change the fact that fantasizing sexually about a woman is the same as lust and lust is sin.

Seriously, all one needs to do is look at the definition:

Fantasize:
indulge in daydreaming about something desired.
imagine (something that one wants to happen).

"Something desired." "Something that one wants to happen." It's lust and it's sin. Only by a different name. Jesus said that to look at a woman that way is a sin.

Just because your pastor may have an issue with lust and used that excuse to cover his sin doesn't mean it's right. I would bet a quick check of his PC and phone would turn up all kinds of filth.
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