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  #11  
Old 04-04-2009, 03:55 PM
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

I believe in full disclosure. Tell them:

1. The list of sins. They are probably sinning without even knowing it.

2. The penalty for sinning. They sure better know that, so they will be motivated to keep listening for #3.

3. The full list of requirements to avoid the penalty. Or they can't make an informed decision whether to pay the price themselves (#2) or go through the effort to avoid it.
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2009, 05:09 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Hell fire preaching is essential to the full gospel message. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Preach it to the sinners that they may know the results of sinful living and rejection of the Messiah.

Preach it to the Saints on occasion. Why? I would venture to say that most have never heard a FULL MESSAGE taught on it! Yes they have been hit with the shotgun type preaching where it is mentioned as part of a sermon about something else.....but to be taught from the scriptures? I would say it is rare.

The Saints need to hear because Yeshua DOES threaten those who dont overcome that they will be blotted out of the book of life. Rev. 3:5. It helps one be motivated to press on when sometimes love alone will not.

Having said that and being persuaded of it a lot more LOVE also needs to be taught. Our spirits need to overflow with Yeshua's life and compassion. In general Pastors and Teachers should have time over the course of a lifetime to preach the whole counsel of God.
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2009, 06:46 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
It seems like we have two different Gods that we claim to follow. One is a fire and brimstone breathing judge, just waiting for a person to stumble just so he can smite the offender down and crush him – something like Job’s initial experience.
You know I have heard people say something like this for many, many years. Yet in my walk with Jesus Christ I would be hard pressed to think of any Preacher I have heard who would fit your description here.
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2009, 12:29 AM
jaxfam6 jaxfam6 is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

All Peter needed on the day of Pentecost was this: Acts 2 14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


now how many does it say was saved that day?

41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

hmmmmmm

In 1 Corinthians 2 Paul writes
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Doesn't seem to me that all this hellfire stuff is needed. If you can scare them INTO the kingdom someone else can scare them OUT of it.

Preach Jesus to them and let that touch their hearts. Let them fall in love with Him, don't try to scare them into loving Him.
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2009, 07:47 AM
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 View Post
Doesn't seem to me that all this hellfire stuff is needed. If you can scare them INTO the kingdom someone else can scare them OUT of it.

Preach Jesus to them and let that touch their hearts. Let them fall in love with Him, don't try to scare them into loving Him.
Exactly.

Separation from a God they're already separated from isn't all that daunting to most people.

But the Love of God, that touches hearts and speaks to hurts and heals and draws and woos.

Separation from the Love of God becomes an intensely daunting thing after you have experienced it.
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:31 AM
jaxfam6 jaxfam6 is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nahkoe View Post
Exactly.

Separation from a God they're already separated from isn't all that daunting to most people.

But the Love of God, that touches hearts and speaks to hurts and heals and draws and woos.

Separation from the Love of God becomes an intensely daunting thing after you have experienced it.
Very true. I think that this is why many who have been seperated from Him do not come back. The God they were taught about was not a God of love and forgiveness. They only knew about the angry God that punishes you for everything. They were not taught about how he loves them more than anything.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2009, 10:13 AM
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxfam6 View Post
Very true. I think that this is why many who have been seperated from Him do not come back. The God they were taught about was not a God of love and forgiveness. They only knew about the angry God that punishes you for everything. They were not taught about how he loves them more than anything.
This was definitely true for me. It took a long, long time for Him to convince me that He loves me and that nothing I had done changed that in the slightest.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on

God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2009, 08:30 PM
jaxfam6 jaxfam6 is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nahkoe View Post
This was definitely true for me. It took a long, long time for Him to convince me that He loves me and that nothing I had done changed that in the slightest.
I think it took being a parent and having a trial hit us. Once I had an issue to deal with that was 'major' I knew then that if I loved my sons that much then how much more does God love us. Took me a long time to understand it too I guess
=)
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2009, 08:53 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Thats funny, if its all love why is the Bible chock full of warnings of judgment and punishment for evil? Are we reading the same Bible?
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:15 PM
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Re: Hellfire, Love or a mix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I believe in full disclosure. Tell them:

1. The list of sins. They are probably sinning without even knowing it.

2. The penalty for sinning. They sure better know that, so they will be motivated to keep listening for #3.

3. The full list of requirements to avoid the penalty. Or they can't make an informed decision whether to pay the price themselves (#2) or go through the effort to avoid it.
Every church should publish their views of the above, so everyone can choose which one they like best!

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